00:00.74 archaeoteacup Welcome Back. So Ash went off to check the bubbling cauldron. But I thought oh right? we should. We should probably relate this back to the to the archeology and the sort of quest that we've been given so I consulted our scrolls and I think actually there's a lot of varying approaches to finding archeological remains of this kind of power that we've been talking About. Um. With the dark lord up here comes ashback with the culture de k. 00:21.92 Ashleigh Airey Yes, it was okay I think that that next batch of Poly Juice potion is going to be fine. 00:27.50 archaeoteacup Oh good, good. Okay, um, wait are you a dark lord. 00:31.84 Ashleigh Airey Ah, um, maybe you don't know watch out Ian holder. But no so what did you come up with did you think about different types of power and how you can see it. 00:39.83 archaeoteacup So. 00:46.35 archaeoteacup Well I guess one of the things and this relates a little bit to what we were talking about last episode actually is is how power has been interpreted. Note my use of the word interpret rather than identify because it's inherently biased. Um. 00:53.36 Ashleigh Airey And that. 01:00.25 archaeoteacup But in the archaeological record if there's 1 thing that our listeners are going to get out of listening to this series. It's to not use those words synonymous in archeological discussion. Ah I am deda it but ah because there was sort of this this assumption when looking at kind of burials from the bronze age and I think. It was I wouldn't necessarily say it was a processual approach. Um, but it was this this very kind of traditional approach to looking at burials and basically it was ok. Jules horses fancy things in a burial equals power like that that person must have been powerful. 01:34.53 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 01:39.40 archaeoteacup Generally it was assumed they were a man um and know there's been some very interesting recent studies done that have been kind of researching excavations that were done previously reanalyzing the osteological material. So the skeletons and doing Dna analysis and it turns out that actually quite a few of them were women. 01:40.45 Ashleigh Airey A. 01:57.68 archaeoteacup Which is very interesting I'll put the I'll see if I can find the studies that I'm talking about and I'll link them in the show notes. Um, but at the time it was this idea of kind of then this this community or this network of chieftains throughout the whole of Europe this was a very kind of Europe. 02:16.17 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 02:16.51 archaeoteacup Focused approach I should say in the Bronze age and you had this kind of interlinking network linked by trade of these great chiefdom states and all this kind of and it was very much focused on this idea of power and this idea that ah we're finding all of these big burials with lots of powerful things in it. Lots of things these are clearly powerful men in these burials that's kind of yeah. So So the the power of the people was directly linked to the grave goods that were found um in the. 02:42.24 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, exactly it's that kind of conspicuous consumption of stuff and isn't it and and stuff and landscape. Um, and that's very traditional kind of view of an interpretation of the past and how we associate it. So. 02:45.19 archaeoteacup Yes, exactly? yeah. 02:59.49 Ashleigh Airey Um, one of the examples that I found and I remember doing this at university was King Childrick degree of the frankish King and and fifth century ga um, and I don't believe it was ever actually related to King Childre they just thought it was him. 03:06.70 archaeoteacup Ah, ah. 03:14.11 archaeoteacup All right? It must be him. 03:16.32 Ashleigh Airey Um, simply because of the things that they found there. Yes, it must be. There is a ring like him. So basically when they excavated it they found like loads of stuff think Sutton who but France right? That's extra. It's more so um, he had stuff like. 03:28.37 archaeoteacup Right. 03:35.53 Ashleigh Airey Golden buckles and gold coins a gold bull's head through frankish throwing axes and swords 300 golden bees with yeah with garner insets. 03:46.56 archaeoteacup Um, what? ah. 03:49.99 Ashleigh Airey And and ah basically placed underneath this cloak he was wearing which happened to be a Roman style interesting. He also had I'm saying he by the way I don't actually know um yet that they they they had um a Roman style Fibula brooge. 03:57.77 archaeoteacup Um, ah, nay they so. 04:06.65 Ashleigh Airey And interestingly enough they had cheldrick seal ring which told us something so it meant that this was very Roman esque in a way so it had the frankish kind of burial grave goods. But it also had all this kind of weird harking back to the room. 04:16.29 archaeoteacup Um, and. 04:20.97 archaeoteacup And. 04:23.12 Ashleigh Airey Um, and so they implied with the sealed ring that they were writing documents so writing in itself showed power. He had the ability to write he had and the ability to collect information which meant that he might have um you know, ah kind of had so much power over a landscape and over people. 04:25.93 archaeoteacup First right. 04:40.73 archaeoteacup Here. 04:42.91 Ashleigh Airey Um, and so it's kind of this like idea of conspicuous consumption and ownership. But then there's even more stuff going on in this area. So it's actually turns out later excavations in the 80 s found out that this whole area of met Merovin Gin Power was actually a cemetery. 05:00.34 archaeoteacup Is it. 05:02.74 Ashleigh Airey And that more people were buried there but there was also 3 pits associated. They think possibly with Childdrick's grave um because they're sort of interlapping with other burials. So it's quite difficult context wise and they don't know. 05:11.17 archaeoteacup This is. 05:19.60 Ashleigh Airey The the radiocarboated it to around the same time that they think that the the guy died and and they had m 30 so in each pit there was 30 sacrificed horses. So yeah. 05:23.72 archaeoteacup Okay, now. 05:29.97 archaeoteacup Oh Wow. Okay, but. 05:35.57 archaeoteacup I mean but but then yeah and I mean there's I guess this is a thing right? There's certain things where you think ok, this was a big deal and this something was obviously happening here to make it necessary to I mean that's also a guess like you know the pyramids you're like right? This wasn't just like an everyday worker being buried. 05:46.45 Ashleigh Airey Um. 05:54.21 Ashleigh Airey No. 05:54.98 archaeoteacup Yeah, like this there's clearly some sort of importance associated with it I guess the interesting thing one of my favorite I I guess you must have done it as well. Um, the Mike Piker Pearson ah book about the dead death death in archaeology or archaeology of death I can't remember that what it's called um. 06:09.18 Ashleigh Airey Oh yeah, yeah, archeology death think yes. 06:12.82 archaeoteacup And 1 of the big questions he asks is who buries the dead because I think that's something as well that you're you're taught quite early on in archeology. But it's that a lot of people don't really think about necessarily is that the dead don't bury themselves right? like it's other people who are doing it and for example, um I always try to give the example of you know when you're. 06:24.90 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 06:32.58 archaeoteacup When when you're being buried Will you be buried in your like hoodie and favorite pajama bottoms that you probably spent most of your life in like you know you got home when you did these things or would you probably put in your thing. Oh I Want to be buried in my you know fancy suit and like or my wedding dress or I don't know like something nice and you know quite often. People are are presented and almost kind of yeah yeah presented I Guess is the best way of putting it in a certain way to reflect how the others see them but they wouldn't necessarily have been seeing that way themselves. So For example, if a dark lord. 06:56.50 Ashleigh Airey Um, yeah. 07:09.17 archaeoteacup Were being buried. Although I guess you could probably have some sort of hold of fear over their minions even in death that you know they the heat if they say bury me like this make me look Grand make me look big then the minions would be like okay and even when he dies they're like right? we better. Still do it. 07:23.67 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, exactly and that's the kind of the thing when you look at burials you think? yeah who who is burying them and what do they have to prove and that was one of the most common interpretations of of burials in the landscape was that and it was someone that came after them so with with. Like Childldrick's grave it was clovis the first and clovis the first is one of the best Kings of the me gene period. Um, and that's his son and so he's the interpretation is that he's making a very big song and dance of his father and the roman connections to the land. 07:46.64 archaeoteacup Rat and. 07:57.66 archaeoteacup Right? ah. 08:00.40 Ashleigh Airey To the landscape to say look. Okay, yeah here I Am you don't forget me? Um, and you don't forget who comes after me. Um, so he he kind of takes on that landscape and is you know it is conspicuous. 08:10.73 archaeoteacup Um, yeah, the asks and yeah. 08:15.10 archaeoteacup The out. 08:16.89 Ashleigh Airey Ah, you mean everyone would have been gathered technically if you think about it to watch all these horses be sacrificed and horses are very rare like you know you don't just have like 90 horses running around. So it's that wealth and that showmanship and that power. 08:22.95 archaeoteacup Okay, right? Yeah, true. Yeah. 08:32.20 Ashleigh Airey That they are able to use these resources for whatever they want. 08:36.36 archaeoteacup Yeah, which fits with the sort of thing of the dark lord that you were mentioning earlier in terms of they're usually the servant or the the you know, ah the underling of some previous dark Lord. So I guess they would also do a big sort of show and dance of. If The if the earlier more powerful Dark Lord fell you know and then they would make a massive burial and a massive deal about it. Do a whole big ceremony slaughtering all the horses and everything to be like look I can you know afford to do this for my predecessor and now I am taking on that that mantle or that term. 08:54.37 Ashleigh Airey Um. 09:06.52 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, exactly it's taking on that status that the previous person had and continuing it because if you don't then you especially when you're talking about chieftains and Kings which um, well chieftains and Kings always chieftains and Kings nobody thinks of anyone else. 09:08.20 archaeoteacup Yeah, that status. 09:20.65 archaeoteacup Um, Chief dance ritual ah happens. Yeah. 09:26.60 Ashleigh Airey Um, but when you're looking at Kevin Moreore a historical context like this like yeah um, he needs that otherwise it's in stable rain from the get-go. So yeah I think one of my professors in in history and when we were talking about the Norman Conquest 09:33.74 archaeoteacup Yeah, you got to have it based on something. Yeah. 09:45.47 Ashleigh Airey Was um, this kind of slash and burn theory where it's like a new king comes along or a new queen they have to make a example of someone so they pick the first rebellion and they they go all out. They they kill the person they kill everyone they know and they go look at this. 09:53.54 archaeoteacup Her yeah. 10:03.70 archaeoteacup Yeah, ah, hung Drunk quarter. Yeah. 10:05.17 Ashleigh Airey I'm going to do this yet I'm going to let you like do this like be a rebel but I'm going to kill you in a most horrific fashion and then afterwards like kind of like it's ok if you want to rebel, it's fine. But I've shown you my power and and what I can do. 10:10.90 archaeoteacup Oh. 10:21.90 Ashleigh Airey Um, so yeah, you tend to see that a lot of times and in kingship. Um in the historical record anyway. 10:23.60 archaeoteacup Yeah, although so indeed so far we've been talking about like history and things. But as you very rightly mentioned with the dark lords quite a lot of the time the way that they're depicted in fiction is a direct reflection of the like modern society and so you know how. What modern people would think of as a dark Lord. That's then reflected in how they're depicted within the fictional Space. You know like you're talking about. So I Guess I Guess it's a similar thing right? I mean in History. It's slightly different because we have the written records to kind of consolidate it and um, you know a little bit more about what's happening even though of course historic records are also open to interpretation. Um, but. 10:58.70 Ashleigh Airey Um, yeah. 11:01.45 archaeoteacup I in somewhere like prehistory I mean that's even further back and I mean what is power like actually like do you know? do you have a definition of of power. 11:09.27 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, well I do have a general definition of the archeological discourse around power. So as as modern humans and how we perceive it. Um, as according to um pause. 11:14.93 archaeoteacup Okay. 11:25.93 archaeoteacup That yeah time. 11:28.59 Ashleigh Airey According to Lu um primarily a quality of individual a quality of an of and. 11:37.40 Ashleigh Airey God I need a drink. Um, okay, why was I up to sorry I perceive like here. 11:37.56 archaeoteacup It's like okay we could just kind of. 11:46.49 archaeoteacup Ah, perceived power I'll start how how what is power like actually how does how do we define power Even you have a definition of power. 11:56.20 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, um I do so the general archaeological discourse tells us that as modern humans we perceive power primarily as a quality of an individual usually of the male variety. 12:08.30 archaeoteacup Ah, classic. 12:08.69 Ashleigh Airey And um, primarily founded upon control over means of violence like cohesive power or dominance. Um, but that's been critiqued. It's simply because it's a kind of flawed fixation on this idea of chieftains and the elite that control like. 12:14.16 archaeoteacup So that's. 12:24.21 archaeoteacup Yeah. 12:27.68 Ashleigh Airey Societal agencies material culture their mutual interactions and but you know in Prehistory specifically in prehistory. Um, we can see that maybe there's more of a focus on the collective embedded power instead of and a monopoly of violence. 12:40.12 archaeoteacup Is. 12:46.20 Ashleigh Airey And by you know the elite few like our chieftains and kings and dark lords. Um, so ultimately we look at power through a modern lens and how we would ah gain power so we are connected to things. 12:47.81 archaeoteacup And dark lords. Yeah. 12:58.74 archaeoteacup Um, and. 13:01.74 Ashleigh Airey We gain power through capitalism because we collect things the more things you have the more powerful you are but that doesn't necessarily mean that the motivations behind different burials look if we're looking at burials like you know Clovis and childrick or even in prehistory. 13:05.43 archaeoteacup Then and more power now. 13:17.44 archaeoteacup Um, yeah, yeah. 13:21.40 Ashleigh Airey Um, doesn't mean that that's the same we need to sort of step away from our own bias like we talked about previously in our wizards episode and we need to look really at what the archaeological evidence is telling us is happening rather than assuming so a lot of the times in um, in burials we. 13:29.20 archaeoteacup Um, yes. 13:34.41 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah. 13:40.52 Ashleigh Airey We've talked about this before we gender burials by degree of goods. Okay so big sword big man you know, um a spindle wall woman right. 13:41.49 archaeoteacup Um, this is yeah man. 13:51.78 archaeoteacup Where then. 13:55.20 Ashleigh Airey But that is proven time time again, especially now with different technology and Dna studies and you know just even looking at and you know looking at the skeleton oddly enough. Um, yeah, that it's like weird so weird like osologylog is a thing. 14:02.10 archaeoteacup Um, where weird right? Who knew that they could actually tell us something. 14:13.40 Ashleigh Airey You know we can see that that power does not translate from man to man. Um, it translates differently and because power is perceived differently. 14:20.12 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah, yeah, and so also who knows well I mean there's so many things that we don't know how they would have perceived things in Prehistory There's so many for want of a better word, weird things happening. So many other aspects of prehistoric life that we see so who's to say that our idea of power and hierarchical structures would have necessarily been kind of what they would have been perceiving as well. 14:45.90 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, there's this kind of false but it's a fallacy really that there is just lords of chieftains and Kings running around and especially in prehistory because you see actually even up into the iron age. There's quite a lot of collective groups and if you think about it. It makes sense because they're walking around moving around in groups aren't they. 14:51.42 archaeoteacup Yeah. 15:02.71 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah, yeah. 15:04.11 Ashleigh Airey Traversing this landscape as a community they have to they can't just work. They can't not work together. Otherwise all falls apart. Um, so if you look There's some really cool evidence about power and kind of hierarchy as well in feasting in the iron age. 15:06.35 archaeoteacup Yeah, then. 15:22.32 archaeoteacup Um, okay. 15:23.89 Ashleigh Airey Um, so there's a particular site in South Wales called Schum Miles and um, it's where basically a large midden was found um and it kind of looked at the eating habits of early iron age elite I do that in quotation marks. Um, and. 15:33.91 archaeoteacup Um, listen. 15:38.10 archaeoteacup Oh and it rich world. 15:45.17 Ashleigh Airey Ruger wo and there was this. You know this kind of settlement site with this big midden in it and what they found is they found loads of specifically right? Fall limbs of pigs in there. So everyone was like oh my God It has to be that these elite people are only eating the right. 15:53.67 archaeoteacup Oh okay. 16:03.18 Ashleigh Airey For them. Big foot like a ritual purpose but actually that they think that well they thought that you know is conspicuous consumption look I can only choose to eat this right fall I But then actually as they kind of looked at it further and further and further. There was more evidence of the kind of flour and fauna. 16:04.60 archaeoteacup Yeah, ah, ah. 16:21.52 Ashleigh Airey And a microbiology and um, kind of botanical stuff going on in the midden. They realize that actually it's more community focused. Um, and that this event that would have happened and because it is all in 1 context interestingly enough and just these these pig bones. Um. 16:30.48 archaeoteacup Um, yeah. 16:37.81 archaeoteacup Ah, interesting. There's 1 big feast. Yeah. 16:40.24 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, bolsters just one big Feast Yeah bolsters like the social relationships within that group and during that time. So it means that exchange networks are trying to be. 16:48.74 archaeoteacup Ah, finish. 16:53.49 Ashleigh Airey Are rebuilding because during this period in iron age Especiallyium wheels. You actually have the collapse and the breakdown of the Bronze trade. So power is shifting and moving and so what they're trying to. They think anyway is happening is that people are trying to find new ways of dealing with power and control. 17:00.55 archaeoteacup Ah, yeah. 17:08.53 archaeoteacup To deal with power so based on all of this then what are we going to say to the dark lords I'm a bit scared about going to them and being like well actually your perception of power is. 17:12.71 Ashleigh Airey Yeah. 17:24.32 archaeoteacup Completely based on your modern misconception. 17:26.67 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, I'm scared to but I think that's the best way of doing it and being like maybe you've maybe there's a different type of power. You could look at and maybe you don't need a centralized power like you know they didn't have it in prehistory. Perhaps so why don't you just change. 17:34.32 archaeoteacup But. 17:40.34 archaeoteacup Yeah, good. 17:45.70 Ashleigh Airey Conceptualization of power as you know domination. Maybe it's unhelpful and Prey reductionist. So maybe we can um you know, look at how power worked in other societies and so instead of you know you know, um, throwing things at each other and you know. 17:48.16 archaeoteacup No. 17:57.34 archaeoteacup Ah, don't. 18:03.30 Ashleigh Airey Threatening to take over one's army of undead. Um, then I think maybe look at how people in the iron age in Wales sat down together and had a nice meal. 18:04.23 archaeoteacup Entire world. 18:15.79 archaeoteacup Ah, okay, why didn't you go tell them that I'll stay here and tidy up a little bit. Um, that's a good idea. Yeah, we'll do that. Okay, but. 18:23.57 Ashleigh Airey I think I'll send the Raven bag. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, well I'm I'm glad that that's sorted. Um, and so that's about it for this episode of and my trow and we hope you enjoyed this quest. It was a difficult one and if there's any so. 18:37.70 archaeoteacup That Hopefully we'll be here next week episode. 18:42.53 Ashleigh Airey Yeah, we might not. We might be dead. Um, so if there's any suggestions that people have for an episode that they've gotten from a fantasy book or they have an archaeological concept that they don't really understand and that we might be able to explain through fantasy or something in a book that they want to find out more about from an archeological viewpoint. Do please get in contact via email or social media all contact information as well as references and further reading for all points we've discussed today can be found in the show notes. 19:11.46 archaeoteacup Oh so sorry while you were saying that I was just looking through all of these boxes look what I found here. Do you know what? it is ah it's ah well hang on I think let's get a friend in. 19:17.47 Ashleigh Airey No, what is it. Oh sounds good. 19:25.52 archaeoteacup To help and we can maybe talk about it a little bit more in the next episode.