00:01.18 Alan How out there in archaeology podcast land this is your host for episode 76 of the rock art podcast Dr. Allen Garfinkel Gold you know me as Dr Alan Garfinkel and I'm the president and founder of the California Rock Guard Foundation and today we have a real treat. We've got someone who's ah of a different sort who is who I just met actually at 1 of the programs that I had given this is one on California indian Basketry. And the woman we're going to speak with is her name is Gloria Brooks she's the founder and director of nature glows e science and I found her captivating and very interesting and we're going to talk about the way to use native american material culture. And also rock art in educating the ah ah people who are um, the young people at school and taking those those materials and using them in a way that will be ah. Empowering interesting and educational. How's that Gloria, how'd I do superb. Ah no, no one has everrick called me superb lately. So god bless you? So Gloria and I Gloria and I met out in the ah. 01:23.40 Gloria Brooks Superb, Excellent! Yes, ah. 01:31.11 Gloria Brooks Thank you. 01:36.65 Alan Western mojave desert out in the new. Ah California welcome center in the gorgeous town of ridge crest and I I believe are you a yeah, do you live in that part of the world or no. 01:53.17 Gloria Brooks Yes, ah I'm ah I have a interesting story I've been living full time out of a converted camper van called evergreen queen a ford e 3 50 v ten van. And traveling up and down the eastern sierra since 17014 and I recently met a new love here in Ridge Crest so it looks like I'm going to be staying here in ridge crest and traveling parttime in the van to get there. 02:06.58 Alan Oh by word. 02:24.36 Alan What's not a bad place but it's not a bad place to be ah to be staying. That's wonderful. Yeah, no yeah so ridge crest is ground 0 for what I call some endlessly engaging research and interesting. 02:27.45 Gloria Brooks With him or solo. Yeah, right. 02:41.18 Alan Ah, landforms ethnology ah archeology many many different platforms that all converge on this one area and I think we had. We had some time to sort of catch up and begin to talk about that. But um, maybe the way to open this and the way I usually do this first segment. Is to tell people how how the heck did you ever get involved in sort of you know, being the the wanderer that you you are and engaged in sort of this panopoly of earthly delights when it comes to educating young people. 03:15.99 Gloria Brooks Yes, well it begins in in 2008 when I became discontented with living a mainstream lifestyle and I left my faith at the time. Church that I was in and decided that I wanted to join an intentional community that embraced all faiths and that was a new experience for me and shortly after that time period my eyes were open to. Ah, connecting with the earth through a program called Kamana which is based out of the wilderness awareness school in Duval Washington and I began taking their correspondence course which taught me to connect with the land similar. Using so skills from native americans based on the work of Tom Brown Jr who I believe he's still alive on the East Coast so I started learning these native american skills like owl eyes and. 04:16.20 Alan Yes. 04:26.79 Gloria Brooks Dog knows and learning to use my peripheral vision among many other skills and that was the seed seedling or beginning of my falling in love with and wanting to learn more about. 04:32.16 Alan Huh. 04:42.61 Gloria Brooks Native american culture and artistry and but it's happened in stages over these last um 15 or so years. 04:54.23 Alan And so this whole association with the Earth and with sort of an indigenous viewpoint or cosmologically connected viewpoint has now become part and parcel of who you are and what you're doing I guess. 05:05.68 Gloria Brooks Yes. 05:12.22 Gloria Brooks Yeah, yeah, like I said it's been ah, a slow ah unfolding really? um and also I began I I read a prayer a native American prayer I Unfortunately I forget the name of it. But it's. 05:12.17 Alan Correct. 05:29.17 Gloria Brooks From the iroquois where they thank the plants. They thank the animals and in the prayer. There's something like and together we give Thanks does that ring a Bell I wish I had looked that up. 05:27.52 Alan Here. 05:39.30 Alan It sure does no but you know you're you're sort of sharing ah a number of things that I've I've learned as I've walked along and ah I think it's a different path but it's quite analogous in a lot of ways and what I find is the more I. Connect with my with an native American heritage or indigenous cosmology The more I learned it. It Buos my own spirit It gives me it enervates me it. It improves me it. It helps me to feel fulfilled. Um. It's It's really hard for me to explain to others just what this journey of sort of scholarship but also interaction with native people has done for me and it's doing the same sorts of things for you I think in a similar way. Perhaps correct. 06:38.61 Gloria Brooks Yes I can say that I've had a strong yearning in latter years to connect with native americans and get to know them and and get to know their culture and understand their art and I recently did a study. For native american heritage month back in November of 2021 and it was really the first time where I started to do some digging about the history of the native americans and the mass genocide unfortunately that occurred and. 07:02.61 Alan Oh. 07:17.45 Gloria Brooks I just I just sob I just yeah, there was a time where I was introduced to the genocide in previous years and I remember just sitting there sobbing uncontrollably like I just thought my brain was going to explode out of my head. Just you know we are that close to such ah an atrocity you know, akin to you know what happened in you know Nazi Germany and I just yeah, so my heart just breaks yet yet look. 07:35.91 Alan Exactly. 07:42.13 Alan Yes. 07:52.36 Alan Yeah, so is it? yeah. 07:56.85 Gloria Brooks Look how there are so many tribes that are that are represented to this day which is an incredible miracle. 08:02.77 Alan It is it is and and I try to emphasize I know this is naive and people tell me that I wear Rose colorlored glasses. But I I try to emphasize or go from where we are now to where we want to be and um I've had some. 08:17.15 Gloria Brooks What e. 08:21.21 Alan Some blessings to work with native people that that I think feels somewhat similar um trying to create ties and create relationships and build something from where we are now to. We can possibly be in the future. Um I have ah an artist who's on the board of the California Rockard Foundation and her she's a twofer. She's a individual that has um you know face tattoos. And an internationally respected artist and she she also shares the same sort of flavor of what I'm trying to espouse and I think that native american basket weaver that we met together who I'd never met before by the way I think shares a lot of those same feelings. Sort of taking what we have and then piecing it together and moving forward I know that my own deep dives and scholarship into native cosmology has sometimes been um. It's been difficult. It's been challenging. It's challenged me intellectually to try to understand some things that are rather unconventional and difficult to digest, especially for someone brought up in a western industrial complex. 09:57.10 Gloria Brooks Yes. 09:56.45 Alan As then. 10:00.10 Alan Yeah, so someone is someone who's used to going to the store and buying meats and and getting things in packages and putting them in the microwave I was raised in the Bronx New York 10:06.91 Gloria Brooks Ah. 10:19.72 Alan Until the age of 8 I lived ah next to PS 46 and lived in the Bronx New York um and and I can't can't call myself somewhat yeah I can't I can't say that I was really um, ever sort of enraptured with the natural world. 10:25.77 Gloria Brooks Wow! Only 2 hours south of me. 10:38.55 Alan Um, to the extent that you may be or others may be who are far more adventuresome than I am although I was able to get on the back of a mule and go through the sierra day San Francisco and do the. 10:59.99 Gloria Brooks Oh that's fit. Oh that's fantastic. 10:58.10 Alan The Grand Canyon of Mexico ah, and visit the largest prehistoric paintings in the world there and and and and stay in ah in a um, you know one of those things that they call tents. 11:16.20 Gloria Brooks Is she. 11:16.21 Alan For a couple of weeks it wasn't my cup of tea but it I did it and and and enjoyed it thoroughly I really did but but this but but this archeology thing that I've been involved with for fifty years I've camped out in the high sierra. 11:24.17 Gloria Brooks Oh that's great. 11:34.97 Gloria Brooks Oh. 11:35.35 Alan In the dead of winter which is you know what? wonderful as well or I've been in a you know out on the ground in the on top of a dry lake in the black rock desert where the sun comes up and it gets to be one hundred and twenty degrees instantaneously 11:51.54 Gloria Brooks 2 Wow. 11:54.69 Alan The the artifacts The artifacts are so hot on the ground you pick them up and they burn your hands. But so so life is interesting. Life is interesting and I have I just have to say that it's been a ball. It's been a just ah I so. 12:01.10 Gloria Brooks Woo. Wow. 12:14.65 Alan I was out of archeology for about 20 years by the way 15 20 years and um I didn't didn't really think I would ever go back or be able to go back. But I have needless to say and I'm humbled and blessed by the opportunities that it's provided me in terms of. 12:31.16 Gloria Brooks Is. 12:33.72 Alan Meeting some extraordinary people and having some unbelievable experiences in what I've seen and heard and tasted and and smelled and loved all the above. It's been just Wonderful. So It is a blessing to sort of be involved in this. And this crazy ah world of you know the study of indigenous people but also as an advocate for native people and trying to find ways to bless them. How's that. 13:03.33 Gloria Brooks Yeah,, That's what it's all about that's what I want to do but I want to do it from you know, a very sensitive and mindful manner and I'm I'm learning that as I go you know using their tribal names and. You know, just addressing them respectfully and being mindful of of where they are at in in this current interesting point in history. 13:30.92 Alan Yeah, try to be sensitive politically correct and and do things in a way that will perhaps Nourish their souls um and especially in the particular. 13:37.32 Gloria Brooks Mm. 13:50.29 Alan Frame of reference that I'm in um, that is never so easy as you can imagine I always talk about you get you know half a dozen native americans in a room and you get 12 different opinions. It's very volatile and and and the landscape is. 14:05.46 Gloria Brooks And. 14:09.65 Alan Landscape is political. Um, really just depending upon what particular piece of the puzzle native people find themselves in even in California of course you've got the greatest diversity of native people. North of Mexico there's you know hundreds thousands of different and indigenous entities or communities that exist all throughout California and of course most of them are federally not recognized which is. Another interesting exercise so you've got ah ah, you've got a layout here of native people that are in themselves. You know, kind of combatants trying to each get a piece of the puzzle or. 14:50.26 Gloria Brooks So quail. 15:06.63 Alan Figure out a way to subsist and live on the land in places that they've lived for you know hundreds if not thousands of years but trying to decide how can I even earn a living. How can I compensate myself and support myself. Ah, in these areas that have virtually no basis for any sort of economy. You know, just think think about the the corridor of three ninety five as an example. Yeah, so it's absolutely extraordinarily beautiful. But. 15:36.40 Gloria Brooks Yes. 15:45.13 Alan There's very little in the way of economic engines to tap into for individuals to in Essence find their way and provide ah some sort of a compensation. Um, um, employment opportunities for themselves. So that's always a challenge as well. 16:01.28 Gloria Brooks I see yeah. 16:04.84 Alan So so tell me more tell me how you have begun to sort of ah apply some of this material and and perspective into your teaching. 16:18.77 Gloria Brooks So back in 2018 I was van van camping in the volcanic tablelands outside of Bishop California and I actually didn't know where most of the petroglyphs were. And but I did I just picked. We picked a road that did not have any other campers on it and I was camping with ah a friend of of mine at the time Terry and her little dog Lulu Luly and so we chose our camp it was on these slabs of rock. 16:47.84 Alan E e. 16:58.19 Gloria Brooks Was quite rickety getting up the road at the time I don't think it had been graded very well. So my van was rocking and and the the washerboard road was pretty intense but we we got to our camp. It was like the first road on the right. 17:02.40 Alan Ah, yes. 17:15.00 Gloria Brooks And we proceeded to take a hike down the path and we lo and behold we found Petrolyphs and I was just amazed I was like a kid in the candy shop Kidney Candy shop just taking photos and videos and just all excited because that was my very first petrolyphics. Ah. 17:13.45 Alan Now my word. 17:27.29 Alan Well. 17:34.96 Gloria Brooks Citing experience and it happened organically. No one told us where they were In fact, they don't tell people where the petrolevs are are there anymore because of some damage that had been done in fairly recent years very unfortunately. So. 17:34.71 Alan Me. 17:53.45 Gloria Brooks That was the only place that I that we had found petrolyphs and then fast forward a few years later I was with another friend and we were just hiking around. We weren't looking for petrolyphs but we met this this man Bill Petrie who has written a book called sky spirits and he was out looking at petroglyphs and he he invited us over to observe some and to look at them and I just snapped pictures left and right and we just had a wonderful conversation with him. He was very knowledgeable as to interpreting or maybe trying to interpret the the petrolyphs. Um I mean it. It was just fascinating this this is still at the volcanic table lands outside of Bishop California and 18:34.29 Alan And and where and where was this. 18:41.36 Alan And I see well let's just hold that thought we have a we, we've we've used up our first segment and then we'll continue our story on the flipop. Thanks gang. 18:47.17 Gloria Brooks Sure. 18:50.63 Gloria Brooks Okay, sure.