00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the rock art podcast episode. 1 nineteen we're talking about this fascinating panel again look down in your show notes and find an image of it. You know I want to talk real quick I want to say about 2 things. The first one is the the animal that is probably the. Lower animal and kind of in a center and it's it's next to the um, the kind of shamanistic figure and and by the safety pin so to speak. Um, it's got sort of a U-s shapeped indentation with a line a very clear line that was carved specifically into it right in the center does that represent like. 00:25.50 alan Yeah. 00:34.44 alan Yeah, just. 00:37.11 archpodnet A wound or femininity or something like that. 00:41.20 alan It probably represents a womb not a wound but a womb W O W O M B and you know again, pen penetrating and and indicating that this is more about fertility and about the ah you know reconnection. 00:44.34 archpodnet Um, ah right. 00:56.97 alan Of animals with growth and abundance and reproduction. Um, you mentioned this that you know all their all their tails are up or parallel to the ground right. 01:11.39 alan So what does that mean doctor. Yeah, they're they're open for reproduction open for business. So God God Bless them. Yeah, and that's what we've found when we talk to the wildlife biologists who tell us that. 01:11.76 archpodnet Yeah, it means they're ready to receive their fertile. Ah. 01:23.90 archpodnet Um, yeah. 01:30.52 alan Only during the Rut period when ah, the females are an estrus. Do they wag their tails and they certainly are in an upwards motion demonstrating their availability for fertility and reproduction. So. 01:38.39 archpodnet Um, with. 01:47.79 archpodnet Um, yeah. 01:49.70 alan That's that's interesting and then um I think I think one of the last things I want to talk about which is something I've I've literally just recognized is is that that wand that's in the uppermost figure appears in the cosos. 02:02.66 archpodnet Are. 02:06.71 alan Ah, many times about half a dozen different times and it's it's kind of a bifurcated pointed wand that looks like it's almost like a divining stick like ah a y shaped like a y and I always wondered about that and it turns out that. 02:21.70 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:26.22 alan Bernard Jones identified and described those kinds of wands and they said they talked to a ah hopi elder and the hopi are Utah aztec and ah isolate out in the american southwest and it's one of the um, oldest continuously and most conservative. Group that we've got there that retain their sort of archaic religious metaphors unchanged and so they said oh that wand we we use that to um, you know during our sun ceremonies and also it it represents the balance of the universe. 02:52.20 archpodnet Box. 03:04.81 alan The good the bad, the old the new the young, the fresh the you know the the disabled and it it helps us to understand more about the Cosmic nature of our you know celestial sphere and the people that hold those. 03:14.77 archpodnet So. 03:23.24 alan Our our sun watchers. Oh really, who are they? Well they're the people that that watch the move into the sun and tell us when the sun stops its movements in the heavens and we have to pray and ask our creator gods to ah get the energy of the sun to. 03:27.30 archpodnet Um. 03:42.69 alan You know, move ahead and go back on its travels and pick it up and not have it stand still anymore move again and you know keep the universe going. It's it's it's time. So it's a time of world renewal and it's a very dark time and a very serious time when the. 03:51.98 archpodnet Rights. 04:00.97 alan We have to do that because ah, you know we're holding life in the balance if the sun doesn't move. We're not going to be able to live so that's called the winter solstice that's about the time of Christmas about December Twenty first to December Twenty fifth and if you look at the sun. 04:06.86 archpodnet Oh. 04:17.38 archpodnet Um. 04:20.54 alan In the sky. It's a time when for 3 or 4 or five days it literally sits in the same location in the sky. So so there's 1 right there and then this panel is very unusual because it has so much of a celestial. 04:26.43 archpodnet Right? wow. 04:39.88 alan And sky and night sky sort of appearance to it. There's stars. There's there's um, trails. There's all this other stuff going on here that sort of has a much more cosmic flavor to it than anything I've ever seen in the cosos. 04:45.14 archpodnet Ah. 04:57.59 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:59.39 alan And and the only other place only other place I've seen that kind of emphasis was at Mary's cave and mary's cave is the place where they actually have demonstrated that that is a an observatory for the movement of the sun and and that. 05:07.23 archpodnet Um. 05:14.94 archpodnet Oh. 05:18.57 alan They have a horizon marker during the winter solstice that is directly across from that viewing viewing point and an astronomer spent the better part of 20 years you know, proving or demonstrating that that was in fact, the case. 05:24.64 archpodnet Um. 05:34.27 archpodnet Wow! Well yeah, one of the other things I wanted to make sure we get in here because you mentioned it a little bit I think at the beginning as just an element but the the center one of the center things here is the projectile point foot thing that has these. 05:37.33 alan Um, anyways. 05:53.73 alan Yeah, yes, yes, power lines. Yeah, the the one of the right? Um, if you read the ethnography current ethnography. 05:53.82 archpodnet Lines radiating out from it and you call them power lines and they really do look like some sort of you know sci-fi movie where some sort of electricity is coming off of something. 06:10.36 alan From the native people of ah Nummik Utahz tech and background they will tell you that the that the central principle of one of their cosmic elements a hallmark of their religion is the concept of pooha or buha that everything has power. 06:11.22 archpodnet Um. 06:24.60 archpodnet You. 06:28.76 alan It's electricity. It's so it's a it's an engine that keeps things moving and connected and powerful and cosmic and sacred and all of that all wrapped up together and so the spiritual energy ah can can be accessed only by those that. 06:40.65 archpodnet Me. 06:47.19 alan You know, open themselves up to these realms of ah, non-ordinary reality because they can't be seen or sensed Otherwise so the way you can do that is by altered states of consciousness not necessarily using. 06:55.43 archpodnet Um. 07:04.65 alan Ah, drugs or other things but you can do it through. Ah you know, chanting drumming from from just arduous exercise from gazing in and the mountains there's all kinds of different ways to do this? Um, but it's it's akin to um. 07:13.84 archpodnet Ah. 07:22.17 alan Some of our religious practitioners who pray and then receive and and move into this ethereal Realm and feel like they're one with the universe. 07:34.96 archpodnet Um, Wow Yeah, that's it. It's so much to so much to take in. Um I think as we're wrapping up the segment though have you heard of any. 07:38.86 alan Ah, and and if you and if you've ever taken drugs like I have way way back in the 1960 s and you've done sort of you know a psychotropic stuff not lsd. But what's the other one. The. So psilocybin you see those power lines and you see those you see those ah shafts when you move your hand There's a trail that is is visible and the colors are intensified anyways. So as though people that that you know. 07:59.64 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:08.60 archpodnet Um, no wow. 08:16.37 alan Open themselves up to this other reality this alternative alternative state of of the universe um are provided with a bit of a picture a different sense than conventional folks that you know don't do crazy things like that. 08:22.84 archpodnet Um. 08:32.41 archpodnet Right? All right? Well one last thing here as we're wrapping this up I'm just wondering if you've heard of any preliminary analysis on the actual morphology of this thing and and how it's been constructed and to see if. If a lot of this if they think a lot of this was put together at about the same time or if they're elements drawn on top of each other and and and possibly at many different times at all and this is a drawing that we're looking at so it's hard to tell from this to this angle. But it all looks pretty fresh and like it was drawn at the same time. 09:04.81 alan I I I would argue that most of it is very fresh and it was done in ah in a singular or extended foray into assembling these these elements I think that some of them may have been added a little bit later but I'd say that. 09:12.45 archpodnet Oh. 09:20.85 alan You know, ninety ninety five percent of them were were ensconced during a singular or extended period of production. That's what I would believe. 09:26.77 archpodnet Well okay, all right? Well any final thoughts on this panel doctor This pretty fascinating. 09:38.90 alan Pretty outrageous. It's it's it's It's ah example of this endlessly engaging exercise that I'm involved in and um it it I think it helps one to sort of get ah get a sense of some of the. Some of the things we talked about you know we had a couple of discussions about amerindianpeivism and certainly this certainly espouses it with all the variability and all the connections. That's that are made between humankind and animals and. 10:10.18 archpodnet You know. 10:14.78 alan Celestial bodies all interacting in a mosaic and an interactive one at that. So if 1 wanted to better understand the native theology I think if you stared at this panel long enough. You might get a ah glimmer. 10:21.18 archpodnet Wow. 10:33.56 archpodnet Wow! All right? Well I think with that we will wrap it up if you I mean if you got any questions send them in contact info is in the show notes but definitely take a look at this image and just see what you think about the images and and what you can make of some of this stuff and what you think it might mean because. 10:33.85 alan Of what that's like. 10:52.72 archpodnet You can't do any worse than we're probably doing right now because it's hard to say sometimes so definitely take a look all right. 10:57.79 alan Um, see in the flip flop gang.