00:00.00 kinkella Hello and welcome to the pseudo archeology podcast episode 140 I'm your host Dr Andrew Kenkella and tonight we've got flint dibble and Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan podcast let's check it out all right? So you know I was just going to do a regular show and I was like prepping my regular show. But then all of a sudden like 48 hours ago I happened to look. I think on Twitter which I rarely look on if we're honest and I saw like I had a bunch of messages you know because I usually don't know don't have any messages because I don't really use Twitter because I don't really care and I find it very unhealthy, but. Was like wow. There's like a lot of messages and they seemed like to me right? It was like oh you were liked on this message right? and there was like a bunch of them and I looked a little closer and I was like oh my god. Flint did his thing finally I had known about this. You guys for a long time right in in the little pseudo archeology world that I inhabit. You know there's a handful of us archeologists who kind of all do similar stuff and flint flint Dibble is one of them. 01:30.51 kinkella He's got a Youtube channel you know and all that kind of good stuff like like so many of us do but flint had been invited to go on the Joe Rogan show to debate Graham Hancock a long time ago like a year ago and I knew it was scheduled to happen at some point and I wasn't quite sure when um I had forgotten but I'd heard this too that um he was originally supposed to do it earlier but he had had cancer and the cancer had returned and he'd had to. You know, have it treated and that's of course a very very serious thing but everything finally got to be ok and he went on the show and it came out yesterday right? So the show comes out and of course that's that's big news in in Pseudo Archeology world um so I immediately was like man I got to listen to this and I got to react to it so I had to get myself together with like less than 48 hours to spare and like my schedule got destroyed. So first I just like to say thanks flint for destroying my so. Schedule man so I had to kind of get this together and I'm like I'm like this is awesome I'll like I'll listen to this and then I'll do a show you guys. The interview is four and a half hours long four and a half hours long and you know. 03:00.74 kinkella It's kind of fun though, like good for them. It's it's not a horrific slog I mean some of it's a horrific slog in some ways with some of the stuff Graham Hancock says and we'll kind of get to that. But overall um, you know, love him or hate him. Joe Rogan is is a great host. Um I i. Always have dug the Joe Rogan podcast honestly I'm a fan of the Joe Rogan Podcast you know so what I don't see the big deal like Joe Rogan interviews all kinds of big names and you know speaking of which ah in terms of what I'm a fan of. Archeology is great and all but I'm probably even a bigger fan of Van Halen right Van Halen with David Lee Roth is like my favorite band of all time I am just a huge take no prisoners I'm all in 110 percent fan of Van Halen and Joe Rogan interviewed David Lee Rock like fairly recently maybe two years ago or so so every so often Joe has guests on that I personally just really want to hear from and I did a show I dig his questions I remember when Joe was the host of fear factor if you know gen x out there remember that you know, um. And he was a like he's a comedian you know so I I don't know I dig Joe Rugan um and so I I was like dude I got to you know tune into this and I have to say that he is skillful at keeping a show moving along. Um, kind of having. 04:34.17 kinkella Both is kind of a point counterpoint between the 2 guests and he kind of kept it you know kept it cooking along I mean not everyone can can do that you know for for four and a half hours so good on him and and honestly good on both flint and I got to say it you know good on Graham Hancock for kind of hanging in there. Um I'm never a fan of somebody who says oh I won't go on that show because it's too conservative or oh my god I could never go on that show because it's too liberal. no no no no no no no the point is. Especially with us out there who are real archeologists trying to combat pseudo archeology you go on everything I'm sure you guys have heard me say this before right? My answer to all this kind of stuff when people ask me personally is always yes, right? I've been on. Different television shows interviews podcasts. Whatever man I always do it so I totally get flint's point of view and I do have to tell you behind the scenes. There are other archeologists out there like really hardboiled academic archeologists who. Gave flint kind of a bad time for going on the Joe Rocom podcaster right? They're like ah how dare you go on the Joke Rogue Podcast it's like dude, let's all relax I think what flint did um I'm about to ruin my show as I always do you guys by telling the ending at the beginning. 06:07.60 kinkella Sure you're used to that flint kicked ass man. He did a great job. Cats off to him man like good flint good for you? Dude that was like a hall and a half four and a half hours hanging there listening to basically every. Classic Graham Hancock Bs story many of which we've covered on this very podcast right? but flint did it with like good cheer. He just kind of kept kept it up kept coming back to the facts and the real stories I mean I just. I was really impressed I just thought he did. He did a fantastic job and I hope that others seeing this might finally and by others I mean others in the archeology community might finally just have enough balls to like do it themselves right. People like flint and myself and other people on the archeological podcast network you know, um, there's some other Youtube channels. We're a small world man. We need more real archeologists to join us and not be chicken so hey look. Flint didn't die. He made it through four and a half hours right so I think the rest of us could could follow his lead you know so I just think I got nothing but good things to say man I just I just thought it was fantastic. What I thought I would do with the rest of this show is just give a breakdown. 07:41.92 kinkella Of how the podcast went and some points that I noticed um now it was four and a half hours long and did I listen to every moment of it. Yes I did now it's both you can check it out both as a podcast and. As a Youtube video too and I have to say what I did throughout the day today I'm recording this at 1 in the morning again. Thanks Flint. Um, and that's because I listen to it all throughout the day I was in my office in the early afternoon I had it on the Youtube channel. Then I actually had to take a drive to another school where I was teaching I'm teaching like a part time class I listen to I listen to it on the drive and then I listen to it on the drive back home then I flipped on the Youtube channel again. So I watched it kind of piecemeal between the Youtube channel and the podcast. But. I did go through the whole thing because I was curious and and there were certain moments where I just I was really looking forward to see how flint would react you know because as again as we get into this. We all know the Graham Hancock stories right? We you know what he's going to talk about It's always the same old stuff. So the the the fun actor in this is is flint. he's the he's the you know he's the new show. So I again I was I was really curious how he would um, kind of react and. 09:19.21 kinkella In terms of how the show went so it started off 1 thing I was I was surprised at is they used powerpoints a lot more than I thought they would and and realizing that a huge portion of the audience is a podcast audience who can't see anything you know, but um I understood why? So each of them. I think flint started first but flint did a ah powerpoint presentation. He he started with some fun stuff. He showed some um some some ancient sort of athenian plates that had pornographic images on them right? just to it. It's fun. It's funny. You know and he talked about how they were yeah ultimately exported to italy you know, um, as just a fun, fun example of things you know he he very early on brought up the Carl Sagan quote if you have extraordinary claims. They require extraordinary evidence of course the exact thing that Graham Hancock never has right? and um, flint went on to talk about like ice age Hunter Gatherer sites because as. Longtime listeners and fans of this podcast know and those who are just into pseudo archeology in general the overarching narrative that Graham Hancock's going to push is there was this ancient complex culture. 10:46.51 kinkella At the end of the last ice age right? and they were obliterated by floods and or comets and or pick your poison right? So flint's idea is like okay I got to show that there's a bunch of hunter gatherers doing the thing all around this time. And you know they just keep doing their thing and the idea that we have tons of evidence tons right? thousands of sites millions of artifacts from this time period the end of the last ice age. We could say ten thousand years ago we could say twelve thousand years ago we know this you know. Um, kind of worldwide and um that so we have while we have all this stuff in in the millions. We have no evidence for some sort of quote unquote advanced civilization right? There's nothing There's not a so. Dick of it. There's not some sort of foundation. There's not some sort of complex technology right? No evidence none. Ah and he also at the same time that that's a big point right? that he's got to get across and I think he did it really as well as it could and he also. Very early on talked about how as archeologists we are very open with our data. You know where the idea is we want to give our data to the world. We want to show people if something new and funky is found right? I've said that a million times right? We all do. It's true. You know. 12:22.47 kinkella If great evidence was found for Atlantis tomorrow would show everyone because it would be cool because it would be interesting. We're not hiding away as big archeology you know and I think most people understand that I thought that. Graham Hancock while he so said his same old stories early on he he did some of his same old dumb attacks like like have you been there well have you been to that site I've been to that site have you the idea being if you haven't actually visited a site. You just can't say anything about it and it's just so lame. It's such a stupid argument. It's like no I haven't been there but I've been to a bunch of sites just like it and um, I've worked there for months on end much longer than your like 3 day trip. You took there with a guide. You know what? I mean it's it's just it's condescending and dopey. And I do have to say what's funny. It says I'm telling you this I literally got another um reaction on one of my Youtube videos like an hour before recording this that said to me well have you been there. It's like. Oh my god so that was one of you know Graham Hancock's arguments that if you haven't been there. You just can't you can't talk talk about it. You just just you just don't have that personal experience. It's just silly bs um Graham Hancock brought up the um. 13:54.84 kinkella But a believer called the Yana Goony ruins that they're the they're the it's a geologic formation off the coast of Japan a lot of you guys have probably already seen this one. You know I have I haven't gone over it yet on this here on this podcast I'll do it at some point it's it's just basically a obvious. Geological feature that of course is sort of straight and looks kind of blocky. Don't they all you know? Ah, but it has nothing to do with human beings. It's just a geologic feature and of course Graham Hancock argues that it's ah ah like some sort of complex buildings that are. Ah, buried under the water you know and it's just silly b s I and then after he did that what was great is flint actually brought up this place called um, Paulo Petrie I believe think it's in the Mediterranean but it's a. It's a area. It's like a city that's sunken. Ah ah, a little bit and and flint talked about the obvious point of look when we work there this site that's been under the water for like 2000 years there's a bunch of artifacts all over as there always is and things like this and that place in Japan. No artifacts, no, nothing just blocky looking stones right? and obviously um, geologic right? having nothing to do with people as this part of the show progressed for the most part Joe Rogan was much more in Graham Hancock's 15:30.44 kinkella Court of course and there were once or twice with a kind of ganged up on um on flynt and I thought flint did a really good job of just weathering the storm and just kind of keep going flint did get a little pissed a few times. Can you blame him four and a half hours but I thought really though ended off. 15:50.42 kinkella Ah, looking really good. You know again? Ah, ultimately looking very human and rational and and great when we return still more on the four and a half hour love fest of flint dibble and Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan experience