00:00.00 heritagevoices Welcome to heritage voices episode 84 I'm Jessica e quinto and I'm your host and today we are talking about the old shoot. Okay, and today we are talking about the bolder Ethnographic Education project before we begin I'd like to honor and acknowledge that the l I'm recording on today are part of the noch or ute people's treaty lands the danitta and the ancestral puebloan Homeland today we have Erica Walters Joseph gazing Wolff and raha edison on the show and I am super excited. Have this group on the podcast. Um because this is a group that I work with um so ah, very excited. We the 4 of us work together this fall on ah a project the boulder ethnographic education project and um. 00:40.26 Erica And. 00:54.16 heritagevoices So we just I just had to to have them on to to talk about this and um, the other work that they're doing that's that's similar to this but we'll focus on this one since this is what we worked on together but just again so excited to have you guys welcome to the show. 01:11.18 Erica Thank you. 01:13.20 Joseph Gazing Wolf Thanks! Glad to be here. 01:15.27 Reshawn Edison Um, super excited. 01:18.83 heritagevoices Yeah, okay, um, so how about you all introduce yourselves Erica do you want to start. 01:24.61 Erica Yes, sure I'm Erica Walters I'm an anthropologist and ethnographer I've been working at living heritage for almost a year now. Live in the Philadelphia area I'm also on the board for the American Anthropological Association's group on tourism and a member of the association of indigenous anthropologists. 01:44.80 heritagevoices And just to clarify that was living heritage anthropology because here in a second we will have a different living heritage. So Joseph do you want to introduce yourself. 01:57.69 Joseph Gazing Wolf Yes, Howundockipi Chanta West Napi choose up hello. My name is Joseph Gazingwolf I'm Honkapalaota and Amazi and nupian on my mother's side. Um I am a and the executive director of living heritage research council where we do wonderful work with. Ah, tribal nations to help document their stories and narratives about ancestral lands and their connection to those lines. 02:23.56 heritagevoices Perfect and Rason how about you. 02:26.47 Reshawn Edison Ya a shi dotain hello everybody my name is raha edison I'm an ethnographer alongside Erica going strong almost a year at living heritage and topology. Um alongside that I'm a director for. Ah, program called cultural education and environmental justice for a nonprofit. Um, yeah for the nonprofit. Ah, ah, guys I'm blinking that right now. Ah. 02:56.50 heritagevoices Knows this is the stuff that's super easy to edit out. 03:01.98 Reshawn Edison Yeah, for the nonprofit. Ah yes, this is nice to offer I'm I'm the director for harvest wall First nation's cultural education and environmental justice program. 03:03.95 heritagevoices Is it the harvest of all first nations one or the. 03:17.28 Reshawn Edison I currently live in the Colorado area Denver but my home is in Steambow Arizona on de naton navajo land and I'm super excited to be here with you all. 03:28.70 heritagevoices Um, yeah, okay, um, so I guess I'll start by giving a super brief intro to our work at Boulder I'm not going to go too in depth because we're working on lots of things with the city of Boulder. Um, but. Ah, just enough so that there's a little bit of context for this project and and you know everyone else feel free to jump in when I miss something because again, there's there's lots of things happening. So um, so this this project um well the my involvement with the city of Boulder. Started back in 18 and that came out of their indigenous peoples day resolution that um, part of it instructed them to rename a property. Um that was known at the time as settlers park. And so the city wanted to do tribal consultation work to come up with a new name for that park and among other things and just rebuild relationships because the city of Boulder actually had um very early relationships with tribes. Um, in the 90 s and 2000. So just basically to to to rebuild. Um, after there had been you know changes of staff and and everything that led to a gap in consultation. So we did that work where we worked. Um, we reached out to 16 tribes and I'd say right now we work. 04:55.57 heritagevoices Pretty consistently with about 13 um, but you know more than that. Ah that I'm getting okay sorry goes one second. Okay so that involved reaching out to to 16 tribes and. Ah, we've been working since since 2019 with these tribes and um, one of the the major parts of that again was the renaming of settlers park to the people's crossing and one of the things that came out of those conversations was an interest from the tribal nations that we work with. On education and doing more to educate the public about their connections to that area and when we started working on education. It was recommended that there be an ethnographic study or a cultural landscape study completed in order. For their tribes to feel like they knew what they wanted to say got to spend some time on the landscape. Um before ah, creating educational materials for the public. So this is the project that we're going to be talking about today. This is the project that the 4 of us went into the field together on last fall. And um, we've also Rashaw and I have have gone on an additional field visit for this project as well. Um, so rashan can speak to 2 of those and and Erica and Joseph can speak to um, 1 visit with two separate groups of tribes. 06:26.41 heritagevoices Ah, that happened this fall. Um, so yeah, so excited and did I did I miss anything anyone want to add anything to that background real quick. 06:36.50 Joseph Gazing Wolf So that sounds great to me I. 06:40.77 Erica Um, yeah, think you got it all. Good job. 06:42.61 heritagevoices Yes, whoo I mean there's there's more happening. There's lots the the city of boulders doing lots of lots of good things. But um, but that is what we're talking about today. Um, so I guess ah. 06:55.46 Erica Um. 06:58.94 heritagevoices Maybe to get us started and this isn't one of the questions I had on my list. So Sorry guys? Um, ah was there anything that you like went into this project. Um, like did you have any thoughts On. Um. But it was going to be was it the same or different as what you thought? maybe um, yeah, any any any thoughts there just throwing this out there. 07:27.51 heritagevoices Or do you guys want me to start with one of my actual questions I can we can believe that and. 07:32.77 Erica I think what I would say it was it wasn't something that I expected to be different but it was something that was different than other ethnography that I've done or other ethnographic. Work that I've done and that is just the logistics of this type of project because we're working with indigenous nations and communities who have been removed from Boulder so we're returning to boulder with those representatives of tribal representatives from those communities. So we have to think about travel arrangements and meals and what hotels should we stay at and where are the bathrooms. What's the weather doing all of those things because generally typically in ethnography you go to the people who are contributing to your research, you're not necessarily traveling with them. So it's kind of an added layer of of consideration. Um, so that made this work more unique for me my experience. 08:39.50 Joseph Gazing Wolf Yeah, and but I think I think that's an excellent point to Erica because I think anytime you do research with with indigenous communities in particular, there's the option to either go to their context or to bring them into context. Essentially a context where they were forcibly removed right? So so um I think one of the wonderful things about this project is the fact that we're bringing. Um, we're bringing back folks who have a connection to these lands. Ah you know in in every way possible. Spiritually. 09:19.55 Joseph Gazing Wolf Um, you know, historically linguistically to these Contexts and and you know bringing them back and having them reconnect to the land in such? ah um, in such a ah deep way where they're They're asked to sit there and you know. In the context and tell us about their experiences their their memories their narratives their stories that that to me was just a powerful experience and the other thing that that really stood out for me having worked with with other agencies is how wonderfully prep. Paired boulder was in compared comparison to other Contexts in which we've collaborated with federal and and state agencies. So So really to me it. Highlights. Boulder's preparation and working with tribal communities and their desired to do so and their competence in doing so. Um, they really stood out to me among all the other agencies that I've worked with so um, so it It was a very pleasant experience in that regard. 10:25.19 heritagevoices Can you?? Um, and sorry not to distract if if her shan wanted to jump in but um, could you talk about like what? Um, What showed you that they were prepared or like what you know I'm just thinking like if I'm working for another agency like a state or federal. Like what does it take to be prepared. You know what? I mean like what is what? what would they need to do in order to be prepared. 10:49.20 Joseph Gazing Wolf Well I mean you know I don't know if others would agree with me but but it takes a lot of personal individual work in order for a group to be prepared. So so. What stands out about boulder is that the individuals working there have clearly put in the time and effort to learn about the historical context um of of tribal removal and and just the grotesque history of of um of settler colonialism here and in the United States um they bothered to put in that time and effort to learn these things. Um and they bothered to put in the time and effort to learn to hear tribal voices and so it was quite clear that they had had put themselves through the personal training. Required to do that whether it be through the through the readings of books written by indigenous people or or just the experience of working with indigenous people for many years. It was quite clear that they were there to hear the voices of of the tribal reps that were there and so um and when I talked to them one on 1 all the individuals from Boulder City had a much higher level of consciousness as to why they're doing this work as to as compared to other contexts where when I talk to the individuals from other contexts I'm not going to mention specific agencies. But when I talked to. 12:17.90 Joseph Gazing Wolf Persons from other Contexts. It's the the response to why are you doing this work or why are you here when I ask them that is typically well my boss told me to be here or like it's a requirement you know, ah our our new head. Our new Representative. Our new boss is saying that we should come here and meet with Tribes or. You know this is just something that we do or something like that. There's no personal work that was done by the individual um to raise consciousness as to why this work is important and so they're not there purposefully whereas boulder clearly stood out in that. In that regard. 12:57.61 heritagevoices Um, yeah, all right? or Sean Sarah I veered away from from you for a second there. But if you had something you wanted to share. Yeah. 13:04.96 Reshawn Edison I think this is great because leading into the this consultation work that we all worked on together with the city of boulder. It was very interesting to me and the fact that like Joseph had mentioned before that they were so open and so willing to accept criticism right. 13:21.76 heritagevoices So. 13:23.96 Reshawn Edison And so when we talk about criticism especially with the relationships with tribal nations. Um, there is a very fine line right? between injustice and then like perpetuating this idea and narrative of settler colonialism right? And so when when I think about anthropology and ethnography. 13:24.62 Erica Um. 13:42.21 Reshawn Edison The story has very much has been told from a narrative that's been projected right for that has been projected in a way that that ethnographies and especially from a western point of view have their own ideas of what. Triable nations are and how they should be and how they're governing themselves. They completely ignore the fact of sovereignty and so within this work and within the relationship that these tribal nations had with the city of Boulder has been very much different from what history has showed us in the past. And then so being a young indigenous ethno ethnographer anthropologist. It's just been opening up my lens to those certain experiences that we have not seen in the past and so I've been a part of consultations where the. 14:23.34 heritagevoices Are. 14:38.82 Reshawn Edison Whatever is being said or whatever has been done and whatever. Let's say institution with tribal nations that relationship isn't really there and that relationship oftentimes is very much conflicting and so within the work that we have done has been um. The city of Boulder accepts criticism right? and they have been very much willing to work with the suggestions that we have done within living heritage and topology and within tribal consultation right? and anyone who knows anything about working with tribes in this kind of consulting work things get pretty heated right. 14:56.79 heritagevoices I. 15:15.79 Reshawn Edison And being able to navigate those spaces in like a safe environment has been very much super rewarding within my spectrum of the work that we've done with ah the city of older. 15:16.24 heritagevoices Um. 15:28.79 heritagevoices Yeah, and I should mention too that erkica and rashan were also involved in the tribal consultation work and some of our other work with the city so rashan and Erica can also speak to to the the. Tribal consultation meetings themselves as well with with all of the tribes altogether I didn't mention that at the beginning but um, okay, so just speaking to you guys? Um, so normally the segments are like 15 to 20 minutes and a little bit will be edited out here. Do you want to. 15:52.91 Erica Um. 16:05.56 heritagevoices Like take the break now or do you want to have me start one and then um, actually you know what? let's just take the break now because otherwise we'll start and be in the middle and um, yeah, okay, all right? and. It always flies so fast. But we're already at our our first breakpoint so we will be right back and continue this discussion here in a second. 16:23.20 Erica Um.