00:01.75 heritagevoices Okay, so we're back and I want to we we heard from from Ryan about some ready excuse me. Ah, so we heard from Ryan about some some really impactful work that he was working on in the southeast on this eis. And Seth I want to um, check in with you. You know you mentioned um before that it was a pretty easy thing for you to see the connection of how to how to apply this work your community can you talk a little bit about um. 00:30.56 Seth Man. 00:38.76 heritagevoices That journey for you and how how you have have tied in your work to your community as well. 00:47.66 Seth Sure, yeah, um so what kind of led me to that work in the first place was that I you know the the further along I got in my you know like undergraduate studies I you know you realize it's unoidible. You realize that all. 01:03.94 Seth You know in many cases Archaeologists have you know, ah kind of a rough reputation with with many native folks and so and you know to be clear. There are plenty of good reasons for that that tension. But um, what I thought and I hope that I do now is I thought that I could Join. You know, existing efforts to to move the discipline forward in that regard. Um, and ah you know these to be clear again these these efforts right between Archaeologists and just trying to be better partners with ah with native communities is is not new right. Um, so I just thought that I ah might be able to be part of that and ah and being native myself I figured that I could help you know, kind of mediate those conversations with my work and um, you know another thing to add is I haven't been at is very long right? like I just finished my Ph D last december. 01:38.98 heritagevoices Um. 01:56.65 Seth And I just got to appalachia state. Um, but that's what I hope to do with my career and you know more specifically with some of my current community engaged work is mostly with with our tribe the lumbie tribe and that work is just getting off the ground like I mentioned. And I'm I'm only in my second semester at app state. But I'm encouraged by how quickly that work and those projects have picked up and the enthusiasm from the community and the the tribal government and so all of that is really encouraging and um, yeah, right now actually. As we speak, we're we're getting ready at app state. Ah so my colleague Dr Alice Wright and are are preparing to take some app state students down to to our land of you know lumbie lands down in in and around Robson County this weekend to do some of the first. Onground work with our Tippo office. Um, and so that's really exciting and ah yeah, that stuff is is seems to be kind of going forward full steam ahead. So I hope that you know I have a long career. 02:59.94 Ryan Um, okay. 03:07.96 Seth And you know doing that kind of stuff especially with my community. 03:11.77 heritagevoices So what? Um, what kind of work Are you going to be doing specifically with the tippo. 03:16.26 Seth Ah, we're just doing some non-invasive or well minimally invasive survey work archeological survey work on 1 of the tribal properties where we is our cultural center where a lot of our events happen powwowser hell that kind of thing and um. 03:21.69 heritagevoices Yeah e. 03:33.16 Seth So anyways, the Tippo. We're just going to be helping the tippo give them some some labor and and research specialty specialties. You know to help that process surveying that that property you know, just walking it looking at artifacts it might be on the surface. We're going to do some some geophysical survey. So specifically magnetic susceptibility survey which is essentially is just a way a non-advasive way to kind of get ah an idea of potential things that are under the ground archeological features. And so and then we with the only sort of invasive part of the survey is we might be doing a little bit of shovel testing but that'll be very small scale and just sort of help ground what we call ground truth those geophysical survey results just to sort of check and see it with our own eyes with. Again, just limited disturbance. So yeah, that's that's kind of the stuff that we'll be doing this weekend. 04:32.96 heritagevoices Um, that's Awesome. So Okay I Want to also give you the opportunity I went a little out of order with all of that because I got excited. Um, but I want to give you the chance ah to talk about. Um, your Ph D work and you know I know that obviously for most people that's a big project and really influences how they do all their work and everything So I just wanted to give you a chance if you if you wanted to to speak to Um, what you did your Ph D on and um. What you learned from that. 05:10.35 Seth Sure did you want me to go ahead on that. Yeah, so my ph d work so I did my ph d at the university or excuse me Washington University in St Louis up in St Louis Missouri and um, most of my work or all my dissertation work was focused. 05:12.84 heritagevoices Um, yeah there. 05:27.21 Seth Down in the lower Mississippi Valley um like in modern day Louisiana and Mississippi and so my research was based my dissertation research was based on using a lot of different methods in ways you know forms of analysis to understand the history of mound building. Down there. Some of the the oldest instances of mound building in North America um between those 2 states where yeah where a lot of many of the oldest earth monuments are found and so um, yeah, researching that and um, what I tried to do is bring a more. Ah, so native perspectives to that sort of ah that sort of narrative that I hope was a little different than typical or you know, traditional archeological interpretations and narratives. Um, just in the sense of trying to ah. 06:23.22 Seth How would I describe it I guess write write more accessiblely less jargon and um, just ah, yeah, include more native perspectives on these like these important you know cultural achievements of of native people through the Millennia. 06:36.62 heritagevoices But. 06:38.62 Seth So yeah, that that's my that was my dissertation research in in a nutshell. 06:44.39 heritagevoices Okay, yeah, and Ryan um I want to give you a chance to to do the same thing to talk about. Um, you know what kind of work. Do you do specifically within hydrology as well I know that um. 06:52.87 Seth Um, you know what. 06:58.83 heritagevoices Obviously we're we're talking a lot about the community and environmental Justice aspect but want you to give to give you a chance to highlight? Um, you know the other work you do as well. 07:07.68 Ryan Sure? Um I lead a lab group at Duke that has 6 or 8 folks in it at any given time postdocs grad students undergraduates. Um, and we have diverse interests that range from computer modeling of the movement of water through watersheds one of the ph d students in my group is studying how projected climate change will impact stream flow. And the Lumby River basin and how those changes in streamflow might impact the health of culturally important wetlands. So that's an example of the type of work we do um I work with folks who use satellite imagery to detect the die-off of. 07:49.70 heritagevoices Um, here. 07:58.86 Ryan Coastal forests along the East Coast of of North america there's a phenomenon that that a lot of people have come to know as ghost forests where sea level rise and saltwater intrusion um are killing large swaths of forest land in low-lying areas along the coast. So. 08:16.25 heritagevoices To me. 08:18.47 Ryan Ah, we study the the occurrence of those forests and what factors allow salt to move into those ecosystems we do a lot of ground-based studies that involve measuring soil. And atmospheric variables and trying to understand how that might impact the flow of water through the landscape and then in recent years unfortunately because Eastern North Carolina has experienced 2 catastrophic floods in the past 6 or eight years my my lab has pivoted into water quality mode where we collect flood water groundwater and other types of water samples and we we analyze them for potential contaminants and these could be. 08:55.48 heritagevoices Oh he. 09:10.30 Ryan Contaminants from livestock operations or other kinds of industrial contaminants even things like septic tanks and we try to make sense of the patterns that we see in the data. What are the what are the likely culprits. Um, where where are the bright spots where do we have good water quality and what are the factors that that help us maintain good water quality here in Eastern North Carolina so in some respects my group is all over the place but you could say that we orbit around. These questions that all of us have come to realize are extremely important to indigenous and non-indigenous communities in the region where we live and work. 09:53.64 heritagevoices Yeah, absolutely I mean again, as ah as a cultural anthropologist. It's hard to to understand somebody not understanding that water is important to people. But um. 10:02.38 Ryan Um. 10:07.10 heritagevoices But yeah, it sounds like you guys are are touching on a ah wide range of of really important topics that have direct impact on on you know, like you said both indigenous and non-indigenous communities. 10:17.71 Ryan Yeah, and I don't want to I don't want to paint my hydrology colleagues as ignorant of human dimensions. You know? of course we're we're all motivated by um, the fact that water's critical um to humans and to other life on Earth and so. 10:23.12 heritagevoices Um, yeah. 10:34.80 Ryan Um I I guess where my perspective has come to differ is thinking about the culture importance of that water. So it's it's more than just a ah ah critical commodity. It also has this this enduring importance to to people around the world. 10:40.25 heritagevoices Um, right right. 10:52.38 heritagevoices And is that something that you've seen be talked about more in hydrology in recent years is that um, something that there's a growing awareness of or or does it still need some work. Do you feel like. 11:04.70 Ryan There's a growing awareness. Um it always needs work. But I am encouraged by by scholarship that that has been coming out of not just hydrology communities but also ecology communities and we are we are 2 closely allied fields. 11:08.34 heritagevoices Um, any are. 11:21.63 Ryan Where people are beginning to recognize these other dimensions of of human relationships to water and so that's fun and encouraging and it gives me hope that the the students of today. Um are going to become water and ecosystem professionals who um. Who have these kinds of connections at the top of mine when they think about the questions that are important. 11:49.37 heritagevoices Um, so okay, sorry I'm just trying to decide if where I exactly want to take this. Um, do we want to do and I know Ryan I kind of already asked you this. But um, but you might have more than one. Ah, do we want to talk about um, highlights right now or like learning or aha moments either of those stand out to either of you. 12:17.24 Seth I have some things on those things after Ryan speaks about it. However, he wants to sure. Yeah I can do learning moments or highlights. Ah. 12:20.20 Ryan I don't know. Do you want to go first Seth okay. 12:20.25 heritagevoices Um, ok. 12:28.22 Seth I Think the way that I put some bullet points down it would fall in more naturally if we did learning moments than highlights. 12:28.70 heritagevoices Um, but. 12:31.99 heritagevoices Um, okay, okay, um, okay. 12:37.68 Ryan I'm happy to follow you then Seth. 12:39.94 Seth Um, okay, great. 12:41.57 heritagevoices Okay, cool. Um, okay so for both of you. Um, what? what have been some major like learning moments Aha moments that have happened throughout your career so far. 12:53.28 Seth Ah, yeah, sure there I think there have been plenty. Ah I feel like hopefully most people who stay in college as long as we've been that you learn ah just the longer. You're the more you learn I Guess the the more you realize you you don't know. Things you don't know anything so I feel like that's the longest list that I could give you is aha moments but um, you know I think one of the big ones is it relates to my community work right? is ah that I think I realized not long into my graduate education that I may have been a little naive. 13:12.49 heritagevoices Um. 13:30.80 Seth As an undergrad you know when I was thinking about what it would be like pursuing this kind of work like working with the senate communities. Um in the sense that you know like regardless of the fact that I'm a native person. You know there are plenty of folks that just don't. Simply don't believe we should be digging or or disturbing sites and and I I understand those concerns and those opinions and you know obviously all this is wrapped up with like what we're dealing with this tangled mess of. 13:49.46 heritagevoices A. 14:05.83 Seth Colonial you know, kind of ripple effects right in the sense that in archeology right? You know tribes don't always own the land. Maybe you know that a site might be on today whether that's because yeah, they were removed from their ancestral lands or you know the land was bought up around them. Over the centuries. But regardless, just like any other archeologist I learned that you know working with de descendant communities and you know any community it takes a lot of time and effort right to build that trust and build relationships. It takes. 14:40.79 heritagevoices Um, you know. 14:44.21 Seth A lot of Goodwill and patience right? A lot of humility so you know I learned that like I said early on in grad school and um, I'm still learning those those sorts of things to be honest, you know and i. All I can do is I try my best to embody those things and just keep chopping at that tree and do the work and you know just learn from mistakes I may make and just keep at it and always just let yeah just stay genuine. And you know, kind and patient and just you know let it take you where it's going to take you with this sort of work. 15:19.76 heritagevoices Um, yeah Ryan what about you. 15:23.27 Ryan Yeah, thanks for that Seth I I really appreciate that and I I feel like I'm a I'm a continual learner as well throughout my career I would say you know 1 noteworthy moment in my work happened. 15:30.43 Seth For. 15:43.26 Ryan Maybe ten years ago I got ah I got a small grant to study climate change impacts in the lumby community and I was really excited about this project because your listeners may know that every few years the federal government issues. A report called the national climate assessment and it's supposed to be an update on the status of climate change climate impacts and climate adaptation throughout the United States and for the first three reports I had noticed that there was a gaping hole in the southeast when it came to. Um, discourse around tribal nations and indigenous people. So I set off to to try to plug that hole by thinking about climate change in the lumby community. Yeah I went went down to Robinson with my my virtual clipboard and um, ready to ready to. 16:41.70 Ryan Suss this out and yeah I got a few months into it and realized oh my goodness I'm doing the exact same thing that we're criticizing non-native or extractive scholars for doing in our communities I came into the community with my preconceived set. Questions that I wanted to ask and answer instead of instead of listening and so that at that moment I realized that um yes, climate change is a pressing issue and it is something that we absolutely have to talk about study and come up with action plans to deal with. But at the same time It's absolutely important to shut up and listen and continue to build relationships even though I am a lumby person I can't hang on that that one statement in order to to maintain relationships in the community and so ah. a week or so ago one of my my colleagues at duke's said something wonderful. She said that relationships are research in other words, relationship building is a research product and we should value it as such and so I would I would say that i. I have come to adopt that as well and so that's sort of been ah both an aha moment and a highlight of my work is the ability to to think about research in terms of how am I building and maintaining good relationships with. 18:14.50 Ryan My lumby Kin and with our neighbors. 18:18.89 heritagevoices Well on that note, we are already at our second break point. Um, but we'll come back and we'll we'll keep talking about some highlights and and where Ryan and Seth want to go with this and see in the future. So. We'll be right back.