00:01.58 heritagevoices Um, more back? Um, ah chance you do feel that way better than me like you can say I love it. Um, um. 00:05.48 Chance Ward And we are back with more kidding practicing. 00:18.35 heritagevoices So yes I was right back in ah, already asked those question break. But yeah, a chance I'd I'd love to hear about how your background before this field school. You felt like um set you up for this field school or not and um, you know what you kind of what was. 00:31.36 Chance Ward Um. 00:37.89 heritagevoices Well okay, let me just ask 1 question at a time. How about that. How about? ah yeah, how how you felt like your your your background set you up for this field school did you feel prepared or or not. 00:39.38 Chance Ward Okay. 00:53.90 Chance Ward Um, I felt ah very prepared I think I'm quite comfortable with myself and my ability to navigate out in the world. So going to a new place like Indiana i. Wasn't too worried I think you know Carlton being there was probably a bit of comfort as well and I I actually had no idea what to expect in going to Bloomington Because I didn't know if there was going to be 10 people or 100 people and i. Didn't know anybody in the beginning that was also going so as far as I knew I was the only person from my school from Colorado that was going and once I got there and we got to see and meet everybody else that was going to be in it. Um. Actually knew a couple people and have heard of a couple others through the nagpra community of practice Zoom calls that happen every month or twice a month. 02:01.85 heritagevoices Um, so was this a ah topic that came up at all. Um, you know in your studies before this before this training. 02:08.86 Chance Ward Um. 02:14.42 Chance Ward The which topic you mean like my like I guess my nacra education. Yeah. 02:15.86 heritagevoices With nagra that is. 02:22.55 heritagevoices Um, your undergrad and grad and yeah before before the field school. 02:31.78 Chance Ward um okay um I actually had no idea what nagpro was until I got to undergrad at Fort Lewis and then I took a intro to anthropology andtro to archaeology and then I ended up taking ah a museum. Class and that's kind of where I learned about the issues around nagpra and um, you know after undergrad I ended up doing crm work for a few years but it didn't feel fulfilling or meaningful enough for me and that's kind of where I made the. Decision to go to grad school and I ended up going to University Of Colorado and boulder into their museum studies program and same thing there. There was no formal nagpa training and it was you know just to mirror what Jane Lee was saying it was basically shadowing somebody that. Has had experience. You know doing the process doing the you know paperwork for the federal registry and you know doing an internship I was fortunate to do an internship at History Colorado under their Nagbra coordinator last summer and once ah that person moved on to another job I was able to it was a perfect internship I was able to just be hired and fill the position that she left. 04:05.80 heritagevoices Yeah, that's awesome. Super excited. We'll have to have you back on once you once you've been in the position for a while and we can talk about all the cool things you're doing but um, yeah, so what? Um, what was the the training like itself for you. 04:08.97 Chance Ward Yeah, yeah, definitely. 04:22.25 Chance Ward For me I thought it was very good I thought they were hitting on topics that were important topics that normally have not come up in my experiences and. 04:22.97 heritagevoices In. 04:41.75 Chance Ward You know again as Gene Lee was talking about things like npi um like the Youtube videos you know they're really, they're really focused on just following the law letter of the law and in Indiana we went over. You know how to. 04:53.12 heritagevoices She. 05:01.52 Chance Ward Talk to tribal elders how to talk to native people how to be a good host for consultation and you know, kind of doing what the tribes want you to do as far as like housing and like traveling on a plane. You don't want to. Shove them under the plane or even you know as Jane Lee was saying too. You know they've asked her to drive herself and pick them up or things like that and that's something I'm coming across right now. Um is that we may have to go pick. 05:22.55 heritagevoices Um. 05:27.74 heritagevoices And. 05:38.37 Chance Ward Some items up on the East Coast but we don't know if the tribes want to go pick them up. Do we want that institution to bring them to us. Do they want me to go get them. Do they want me to go alone. Do they want me to bring somebody with me and. 05:38.89 heritagevoices In the. 05:57.31 Chance Ward You know those are conversations that have still yet to figure out. But um. 06:00.67 heritagevoices So. 06:07.69 Chance Ward I forgot where I was going with everything. 06:11.97 heritagevoices Um, you were talking about um the field school and um, basically like. 06:18.62 Chance Ward Oh yeah, that's right, Um, one of the things I did like about the training was having everybody in the same room at the same time I think being able to be in person and having these big group discussions was. 06:26.22 heritagevoices Here. 06:34.34 Chance Ward Probably 1 of the more important parts that I thought um, being able to meet everybody and you know the tables seem to change who sat there every day you know I got to meet most I didnt meet everybody. But I did get to meet a lot of different people. The seating arrangements were not assigned but they kind of rotate it so that you can meet other people and you know even afterwards we were getting invited to go do trivia night at the bar. Um, going out for dinner. We went bowling even little things like going to buy snacks at the grocery store because we didn't want to walk alone or you know I don't think any of us really knew the layout of the city of Bloomington but. 07:33.35 Chance Ward I will say it was hot and humid. 07:35.57 heritagevoices So. 07:36.77 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yeah, story about that. Yes, that's the the one down side to doing stuff in the summer in Bloomington it's very hot and very humid. 07:43.10 Chance Ward Ah, yes, it was very high I'm I'm from the West Well I'm used to the the good old dry dry summers. 07:49.89 heritagevoices Yeah, dry heat. Yeah. 07:50.12 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yeah, chance me too I mean I'm from Washington state originally so I've either lived in Seattle where it's pouring rain in ° or in the eastern side where it's 105 but it's a desert. So yeah, humidity is is tough. 08:02.13 Chance Ward No, yeah, it was it all the trees surprised me. Let's not lie expected in like. 08:04.79 heritagevoices Um, yeah, yeah, the. 08:13.58 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Um, yeah I think a lot of people assume that Indiana is all just cornfields which a lot of it is but everything for the most part south of Indianapolis the glaciers didn't come any further down. And so that's why everything from about twenty Miles north of us to Lake Michigan is really really flat because the glaciers flattened it and then everything south where we are is trees and forests and rolling rolling hills and waterfalls and caves and all kinds of stuff. 08:36.40 heritagevoices Stop. 08:45.93 Chance Ward A. 08:46.82 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Ah, very different. 08:48.19 heritagevoices Um, learn all kinds of things on this podcast. That's interesting I didn't know that? Um, ah yeah, no, and that's really cool I like that you guys had that welcome breakfast and that it seemed like um. 08:50.81 Jayne_Leigh Thomas This is. 09:05.24 heritagevoices You know this community built because when you do a training like that, especially with something like nagpro where there's not a lot of resources I mean that community that you can go back to and ask questions of and hey how are you guys doing this and have you thought about this and blah blah blah like that would be really important to actually. Um, becoming you know the kind of practitioner that you would want to be. 09:27.41 Chance Ward Yeah, we were also able to have lunch at the I think it was like the Native American Center. Yeah. 09:37.91 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yes, so we had um, there was our first nations educational cultural center hosted lunch for a couple days which was really great again trying to you know, get everyone to talk to 1 another and foster our sense of community the you know it's a very intense. Week and we tried to build in lots of breaks and opportunities because you know some of the discussions can be a little bit heavy and so we really wanted to make sure that you know folks had plenty of breaks and that there was time for that and also we do plan. 09:56.89 heritagevoices Um, yeah. 10:01.18 heritagevoices For me. 10:12.32 Jayne_Leigh Thomas To have a Zoom call you know, like once every six months for the group to get together and and to talk and just to check in on see how everybody's doing and if there's any other questions and we've put all of the materials. Planning to put them in like a cloud drive for the group. So if they want to look back at powerpoints or anything like that that there's resources that they can look back on. 10:34.89 heritagevoices Um, that's awesome. So were there any like highlights that really particularly stood out to to either of you or both of you. 10:45.31 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Um I was just shocked but so pleased at how quickly a group of strangers became very collegial and very I mean people were kind of emotional leaving on Friday which I was not. 10:55.86 heritagevoices Is. 11:01.90 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Anticipating I was not assuming that people would become very good friends in such a short amount of time and so that was that was really great with a lot of people exchanging the content information and then you know not only creating new friendships but that that network of support for future nagpro work. 11:17.90 heritagevoices Yeah, what's awesome. 11:19.41 Chance Ward Yeah, same thing I you know left with new friends. You know we connect through Facebook Linkedin exchanged business cards and I think it was very cool, very cool I'm glad that. Came out like that and I was a little sad to leave I was hoping to keep going with the training for another week and just keep going with it and see where where else we can go. 11:48.90 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Folks have asked us to do it. You know twice a year which be you know I don't foresee us being able to do just because we're so busy with the compliance work but it's it's wonderful to know that it was. Ah, that the participants felt it was successful enough that that was their feedback to us. So Even more of a driving force for us to make sure that we can find external funding to do this every year. 12:14.82 heritagevoices Yeah, yeah, was going to say I would happily come inate I mean I feel like we all. There's so much to learn with nagra feel like I've just barely touch. 12:27.74 Jayne_Leigh Thomas The idea is that in the in the future that it will move around the country. We've already had um you know it'll be at the University Illinois or ban of champagne next summer but we've also had 4 other universities also reach out tribal community has also reached out. 12:32.15 heritagevoices Awesome. 12:41.54 heritagevoices Um, ah well it was awesome. 12:43.62 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Well to say that you know keep us in mind. We'd be interested in hosting and and that's really wonderful because then we could potentially um, you know we we took applications from anyone across the whole country. We had folks from Alaska California since excuse me Connecticut you know, but. 12:55.15 heritagevoices She hates. 13:02.38 Jayne_Leigh Thomas A lot of our tribal presenters were kind of regionally specific. So for example, if we did go to California we could have more folks from California speaking. For example, you know there's a lot of just different options there. But yeah, we've been really really pleased to hear that folks have already reached out and said hey we would be. 13:13.77 heritagevoices Um. 13:21.48 Jayne_Leigh Thomas You know, willing to be the the host location for you and so the idea would be that the training would stay the same. We would just move it across around the country. 13:30.85 heritagevoices Um, that's awesome. 13:32.44 Chance Ward Yeah I think yeah, that reminded me I think that was probably a highlight I heard too at the end was that in the future. It could potentially move around um because I know that it was an in Indiana and I think majority. The participants were probably from east of the Mississippi. It. 13:49.54 heritagevoices Um, oh really, that's kind of interesting. 13:53.14 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yes, they were and um with the grant we were. We were able to provide honorariums for our guest speakers and um, but they were they were all from east of the of the Mississippi where they are today and so the idea is that okay, you know if we have. We move the program around. We could have you know local community members speaking um wherever the the training ends up being. 14:22.73 heritagevoices Um, cool. 14:24.20 Jayne_Leigh Thomas And we're going to be putting the new application out for the next year probably in around December so please Jessica if you want to apply. But also you know share with any folks you think might need the training or if they have students. 14:35.45 heritagevoices Um, you. 14:42.69 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Um, like I said we're not, We're not just focusing on students. Anyone who's already a professional in the field I have worked with tribal members who have been on tribal council and left the room for a minute and came back and they had been nominated the Nibra coordinator I mean and so. 14:58.23 Chance Ward Yeah, yeah. 14:59.10 heritagevoices But. 14:59.70 Jayne_Leigh Thomas You know and the person called yeah so they said I need nagbra training and so what we want to do is make sure that it's open to anyone and everyone who might need it. Um again because we were so surprised to have such a large number of applicants. We never Assumed. It would be that large so quickly and so we had to. Kind of go through the applications and try to make a selection but we don't want it to be Um, we don't want to have some sort of like gatekeeping behind it where you can only apply if you're a student or you can only apply if you have a master's Degree. We don't want to do that. 15:34.62 heritagevoices Um, yeah, that's tough though I mean that would be really hard to narrow from a hundred down to forty. But yeah. 15:42.00 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yeah, it was it was. We definitely went back I mean we had some folks that I'm sure it would been lovely to meet them. But for example, we had retired professors applying a retired professor doesn't need and that compliance training so you know in a ah you know a. 15:50.97 heritagevoices Um, right right? yeah. 15:53.71 Chance Ward Right. 15:59.43 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Sophomore and undergrad in art history doesn't necessarily need that right now we were trying to really focus on folks that need it crucially and they need it right now and then trying to look at you know that next generation of folks who would be up and coming for 9 per work. 16:08.39 heritagevoices Um, right. 16:11.28 heritagevoices Oh. 16:12.27 Chance Ward I think that really showed in the in looking at everybody. Of course there was a range of age differences from early 20 s up to elders that are currently you know doing nagpro work whether it's for a university or. Ah, museum or you know a Tippo office. There's a couple people in tippo offices and a lot of them were I think something that kind of gave me a little bit of comfort was that we were all on different stages of our learning and we all have different. 16:51.60 Chance Ward Levels of knowledge from complete blank slate beginner to somebody that's been doing it for a few years and has found a way to be successful with it. 16:59.89 heritagevoices Here here. 17:00.74 Jayne_Leigh Thomas I think 1 thing we were really surprised about is that almost ten percent of our applicants were already nag coordinators and that was a little concerning because it's like women if you're already a nag coordinator but you don't have. 17:08.53 heritagevoices Wow Yeah, the. 17:19.96 heritagevoices He. 17:20.70 Jayne_Leigh Thomas The training behind you so it was like oh my gosh you know there's already. There's a lot of folks that are already supposed to be doing nagpra out there but they were desperate for some sort of training and so that was just even more highlighted that this is something that really is really needed nationwide. 17:36.67 Chance Ward Yes. 17:38.50 heritagevoices Um, yeah, yeah, okay, well other than um, you know the fact that it should have been two weeks is there anything that like ah on reflection and the regional aspect too I think that's really smart. 17:42.72 Jayne_Leigh Thomas That. 17:54.81 heritagevoices Um, is there anything else that on reflection you're like oh you know like maybe we could have done that differently or um, you know things you would maybe change for the future. 18:04.84 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Um, um, honestly I mean we we gave out surveys at the end of the week because we wanted to receive feedback from the participants exactly what you're asking. You know is there. Ah topic we didn't cover. Is there something that you wanted to hear more about more. Ah, you know if there was other people you wanted to hear from and I think we we're trying to see if there's more maybe variety in different case studies you know for example because. 18:24.79 heritagevoices Um. 18:37.66 heritagevoices Um. 18:38.85 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Something that works for Nagre in the Midwest may not work in California and that might not work in Hawaii and that might not work in Florida or Alaska if you see what I mean and so a lot of the knowledge we shared was just basically from my experiences and my experiences are going to be completely different for example than someone in let's say Hawaii and so. 18:40.89 heritagevoices Right. Yeah here. Yeah. 18:58.23 Jayne_Leigh Thomas You know like I said and that regional diversity being able to talk about that I think we're going to look at in the future and how can we really make sure that you know a lot of different angles are being discussed. 19:10.93 heritagevoices Um. 19:12.87 Chance Ward Um I could add something. Um I think for me personally I don't know how everybody else felt but if I could add something that we didn't quite get into it would be. 19:13.45 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Please. 19:25.42 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Oh. 19:28.43 Chance Ward Going step-by-step through how to write an inventory in a summary and the notices to the federal registry because even though I've seen them and read them I was usually the background person in all the Nagpo work and. 19:35.68 Jayne_Leigh Thomas So okay. 19:37.99 heritagevoices Um, and and. 19:43.45 Jayne_Leigh Thomas On her. 19:47.33 Chance Ward I didn't have to actually fill out the paper work or documents. But. 19:52.39 heritagevoices Ah. 19:52.75 Jayne_Leigh Thomas That's a great great recommendation chance I appreciate that because you're you're absolutely correct. We very briefly talked about that but we didn't actually get into it. Um, one of the thing that I think we we could have talked about was that we didn't was the grants. 20:08.20 heritagevoices And the. 20:08.74 Jayne_Leigh Thomas And Grant writing because um, as the new regulations are getting ready to change fairly soon. Especially I think there's going to be a lot of folks looking for financial support for documentation consultation, grants repatriation grants and those type of grants are different. Then for example, an and Nsf grant which is much more large so you have to be a lot more concise with an Agpa Grant and very project specific and so we weren't really able to talk about that and we didn't have that time and i. I'm not sure how we'll fit that in to be honest because we had kind of a full week we did stop just after lunch on a Friday we wanted folks to have the opportunity if they needed to go home on that Friday that they could get to the airport but we might have to just flat out extend that as another complete full day. Just so that we can do some of this this other stuff. 21:02.35 heritagevoices Um. 21:07.14 heritagevoices Um, two weeks two weeks ah 21:08.32 Chance Ward Um, two 2 weeks I'm down need two weeks of that brings up something else I just thought of so if I could recommend another thing. Um I will say that. 21:09.22 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yeah, yeah, yeah. 21:11.12 heritagevoices Are. 21:24.47 Chance Ward Um, for those of us that already have nag pre experience. Um day one was kind of a review for some of us it was because it was very much kind of a nag pro one on one. So. 21:32.99 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Over. 21:39.62 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Other. 21:43.24 Chance Ward So I feel like day one was review which was helpful sometimes I kind of forget the early things that I've learned but so I don't know if this of the two weeks thing definitely makes sense. But um I don't know if. 21:56.42 Jayne_Leigh Thomas A. 22:03.40 Chance Ward An application maybe asking what their level of knowledge and experience is and the people with zero can probably go on day one I'm not sure how that would work with logistics and everything. But. 22:10.39 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Ah. 22:13.91 Jayne_Leigh Thomas The head. 22:20.69 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Yeah, we we could. We could definitely make that something where you know that's you know if you don't need nag for 1 a 1 you come in on the Tuesday when you travel in per se on the Monday we could possibly do that. Um. 22:30.91 heritagevoices Um. 22:35.23 heritagevoices Or even like a Monday has like an option where you can do like the niagara one on 1 or you can do some like super advanced topics like for people that sorry now we're just like now we're just brainstorming. Ah. 22:42.57 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Hey. 22:45.62 Chance Ward Ah. 22:47.86 Chance Ward I know. 22:49.28 Jayne_Leigh Thomas That's okay, that's fine. Um, you know we definitely were. We're interested in this kind of feedback because this was actually a pilot study So that's the way we pitched this to winter Grin is that this was like a pilot program and nothing like this has ever been done. There's been no like quote summer training. 22:52.73 heritagevoices Um. 22:57.30 heritagevoices The smooth. 23:08.36 Jayne_Leigh Thomas Type of thing like a field school because I in the past I was always complaining like okay archaeologists. You know they go to summer field school. That's where you get your like hands-on training. But there's nothing like that for nagpra and so we when we wrote the um, the proposal. 23:17.40 heritagevoices Um, right. 23:25.78 Jayne_Leigh Thomas We pitched it as this pilot program like okay well, we've never done this and there's not really aside from like a summer archeological excavation field school. We're not really sure how this is going to work so we're going to give it a try and so we're definitely interested in receiving feedback because. You know there may be just different options that we can do or especially like okay you know, maybe the first couple days is that nia one a 1 we bring other folks in later or we extend it for two weeks um or maybe that we're able to at some point if we do extend it to two weeks is there opportunity for very specific you know questions like if someone says hey let's break down a nag for Grant or we could do a lot more small group activities which we weren't able to do either. So yes, we're definitely interested in any feedback that we can get. 24:20.32 heritagevoices Awesome. Okay, we're already at our second breakpoint. Um, so I must stop us right here because I know we could keep going but we will be right back here in a second.