00:00.41 archpodnet All right? We are back from our break and I I Want to ask you you mentioned earlier about you, you were talking about your first book and you mentioned that you were working on another book. And so I'm curious if you could tell us more about about that book. 00:18.15 Oona Yeah, yeah, okay, well there are actually 2 books um the book. That's my book that I'm writing um and that's based on my field research the the research that i. Got permission for from the community from different communities. Um is about um, traditional political authority and um, how that's I guess ah changed over the years and how the challenges that the that um, indigenous leaders face. In terms of um in in their increasing interactions with the national government and it's been very very interesting. A lot of questions about tradition ah versus modernity and that sort of debate and how it's how the idea of identity and heritage is being debated internally in in these various communities. So. That's still you know that's still in progress. Um, and that's going to take another couple of years I think but but the book I'm really excited about now is is a book that's not going to be available in the states. Um, but it's a book that's being put together that has been put together by. Several people in in in one of these communities. It's basically authored by um, a dau named Butlo bodlo ane hagen and he's I guess what you would call a cantor for the oral traditions and he was. 01:49.30 Oona Um, assisted by 1 of his cousins and by my research assistant and some other people over the years it it took him 10 years to put this together and it's something that um I helped with ah as I would would say a supporting and supervisory capacity. And this is a book of their oral traditions written by them and it's entirely in their language and it's going to be I think probably the maybe the second um real book that's in their own language. The first one being the new testament which was put together by foreign missionaries. So. Very excited about this book and it's going through the editing stage right now and we're hoping to um, print it and distribute it to the community and to the indigenous people's education system in their ancestral land area. Um. Um, through the department of education in the coming months and what it is is basically the story of their ancestors. Um, ah from I guess ah the moment of um, it's not the moment of creation. But it starts with a flood. And then the peopleling of of of their area and and the first ancestors and and and the succeeding ancestors after that and how they became who they are and and ended up where they are as a people and it's calledupanno da baligian and it's just basically the the oral oral. 03:19.69 Oona History of Baliyan which this one Higaonun community in Mindinanao And so yeah, that's what we've been working on more recently and this will eventually become another book that I'm hoping to um. That will come out here when we translate it into English or I translate it into English and and annotate it. But right now it's It's basically being produced by the community for the community and I've been so I feel so um, so incredibly lucky to be a part of it. 03:55.22 archpodnet Yeah, okay, um, I'm I'm curious about this when you're talking about you know that it's in their language and just I'm just thinking like logistically um you know because I imagine that's that's not a language that you speak is that true. Um. 04:06.25 Oona And. 04:12.41 archpodnet And then how you how you made that work I guess. 04:14.21 Oona Um, oh well I I can understand it I I speak it in a ham handed way I can read it or read enough to took to spot errors you know in terms of editing um and um. 04:19.72 archpodnet A. 04:25.89 archpodnet A. 04:32.70 Oona And yeah, so I actually do know this language I'm just not fluent in it in terms of speaking. Um, but it's it's ah something that started out as a side as a side sort of as a side thing. Um my main. 04:36.18 archpodnet Okay. 04:48.40 Oona Project was this political traditional political authority thing but everybody I spoke to all the traditional leaders said and they're called Daus and Batis male and female. Um leaders. Um, they all said well you need to actually learn the pannode to understand what you're looking for in terms of the questions about like how. 04:50.41 archpodnet Wow. 05:08.18 Oona People become traditional leaders and what that whole idea of leadership and and and political authority. You know what's behind that is the panhood and so the panud is is their oral oral traditions and and then so in the course of learning about this. They're like you know, let's write it down because there's no, it's not written down like. 05:13.95 archpodnet Here. 05:27.83 Oona Um, properly and the guy that I the main um ah dato budlua um, he's basically he basically told me you know, um, people aren't learning this anymore. Kids aren't learning this anymore and so when I die this is all going to be gone or a lot of it's going to be gone. Um, and um, he was pointed out to me by daus in other parts of Higa onund land. Um, as being the one who's the most knowledgeable of all this. So basically this is his version of the punu and him and he can't he's he can't really write. Um. Ah, and but so he's had help from his um cousin who's very literate and and other people like my research assistant. Um, who's who's from the community and so they would you know after farming um like maybe a couple of nights a week would get together. Um, you know with with um. With ah with a lamp or you know a flashlight or it's like a kerosene lamp and then work on it writing it down on yellow pad and then and then my research assistant would type it into a computer when he got back to town and that's how he worked for for 10 years and I provided. Funding um support moral support. Um, um, you know, um, ah, support in terms of like how do we do this thing. How do we write it down and and you know it. It was really um, it was really um, a labor of love for them. 07:03.68 Oona Um, and yeah and it took 10 years it's 10 years labor and um, when we finally presented the draft to the community different parts of the community. Um, just a couple of months ago everybody was really really excited about it and and that's how I know that it's you know this is a good thing that we've that they've done. Um, so yeah, that's that's really is it's it's I emphasize that it's authored by them and there it's it's it's going to have their names on there as author authors. So but I you know fortunate to be part of it. Yeah. 07:35.12 archpodnet That's awesome. 07:42.22 archpodnet Yeah I mean I was when you were first talking I was wondering if um, if your research assistant was you know involved in the community in some way shape or form and if that helped with all of that. So it sounds like that that was a big part of it as well. Um. 07:52.77 Oona Oh yeah, yeah, no, it was. It was a really big part of it. Yeah. 07:57.39 archpodnet Okay, so yeah, so okay, um, Community is really excited. Oh no, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. Um, Community is really excited about this book. Um, you know and and obviously I'm sure that has a huge impact like you've been working with them. 08:05.66 Oona Sorry um. 08:08.76 Oona Yes. 08:17.30 archpodnet All this time and you know it started with your uncle. But now you have this thing that they wanted and um, you know you've shown that you can deliver on what they want So what? what is next like what what direction are y'all going from here. 08:38.40 Oona Well, um, 1 interesting sort of impact of this is just just the process of working on it. Um I mean over 10 years most people didn't pay pay the working group any mind. But once I was sort of getting more involved again. Especially with the editing and stuff like that. Um, then it sort of cost a bit of a stir and people were concerned that that you know that you know who's going to own the oral tradition and all of that and and so it generated a lot of interesting conversations and debates and um about this and at the same time It's also. 09:03.37 archpodnet Right. 09:14.84 Oona Like in the process it it it revived all this interest in the panur again. Um you know, even among um, ah in in communities where people had already converted to christianity and they were they were looking at the the bible as their new sort of Pano you know, um, ah and and and and so. 09:28.90 archpodnet A. 09:33.39 Oona That's been a kind of an interesting thing. That's that's developing and it's in process and one of the other things here is that not directly caused by this but we've sort of um I guess sort of joined up with them is that the ip education program. Indigenous people's education program which is basically um. Um, put together in this in this part of of the Philippines by other higaonuns younger Higa onons who had gone to college and gotten teaching um degrees and they're certified as teachers and they basically developed. Um. Um, over the years this this this thing that they now refer to as ipd ib education and um, a lot of those people working there are you know in their thirty s um and they're in ip education and they're very interested in. Um, you know, compiling these these sorts of things. A lot of. Ah, things that can they can make into books and and uses as teaching materials. Um in in the school system and to to promote this sort of indigenous curriculum and um so we've been in conversation with them and they're very interested in in doing more stuff. 10:45.34 Oona And and so I'm very excited that when I go I'm going to go back in in in a couple of months and we're going to actually workshop all these different things that they want to do and so my role here is going to be as somebody who's just sort of going to be training them how to do this so they're going to be. Ethnographers I mean they're already doing it as amateur epnographers. But you know I'm going to provide what I know and and and and and try to kind of make it more? Um, ah make it make it make it a more formal thing and we've talked about maybe co-authoring. 11:20.61 Oona Um, you know academic articles where they they analyze these things and and and so it's it's going to be come. It's it's sort of a more more collaborative than this panud was and so that's the sort of the the new direction that um I see my role at least in this going because. For me, it's it's I think more meaningful if they they produce this stuff themselves and it should not be me who's an outsider. Um, who's who's positioned as an authority on hion and culture outsider shouldn't be driving the research agenda here and so by by providing my my. I Guess I'm sort of training them to be their own researchers and and so that's the this. That's the direction that I see this going that I would like for it to go and and so um, it it wouldn't have been possible without this work on the panud which was really kind of where it started I think. And that just happened that this like I said that's just a byproduct of the the project that I they got permission for which is a study on political authority and me interviewing different indigenous Leaders. You know in the field. So yeah, So that's what's that's sort of what's going on. 12:32.74 archpodnet So I mean I think I'm getting a sense of this already from what you're talking about but I want to ask you this specifically? Um, so what's what's the best part of of this work for you. 12:43.32 Oona Um. 12:50.88 Oona Oh well? Um, definitely well. You know you get excited about you know learning and and all of that stuff. But for me the best part. Really here has been the relationships that I've formed. Um and and this is it's not just a. You know I made friends when I got there, you know, um, we all like to be liked and everything and there were some people who hated my guts when I first got there because that was such a pain. Um, but over the years like after after the first decade or so after I had been gone for a while and I came back. Um, there was this one guy who really. Hated me I mean he just couldn't stand to be around me. He would just sort of like make you know make huffy noises and stuff and and just stomp his feet and leave when I would show up. Um, when I came back. He embraced me and called me his niece and and so that was kind of interesting for me and and I was really suspicious at first. 13:36.50 archpodnet And. 13:43.12 Oona But um I guess it took that long for them to actually trust and accept me instead of just tolerating me and so um and and it just sort of I think has has um, been quite good and much more productive since then the relationships that i. That I made over almost a quarter of a century part of this is watching the kids grow up. Um and and them having their own kids. My research assistant for example, Jerry Obelno was 2 when I met him the first time. 14:18.50 archpodnet Oh man. Ah. 14:18.99 Oona Um, and you know he was a toddler and yeah, a picture of him you know with no clothes on and he has a bull cut. It's very very funny but you know he's um, he's done with college. He's been working for an Ngo and he's now going into the department of education. 14:25.82 archpodnet A. 14:36.18 Oona Um, to join this Ipd program and and so to watch to watch these kids grow up. Um and and you know I guess it it feels like um, it feels. Ah, it's a very special feeling I think to to sort of um ah to to. Be a part of people's lives and and watch them change and grow and and and and become you know adults and and and um and and and do these amazing things with their life and and you know the the personal Journeys that they go through to get there and and so I've I've been really honored to watch all of that with with the. Kids that I that I met when I first got there who are all grown up now with their own kids. So That's to me has been the the best part of it. That's the part that means the most not any of these sort of Journal articles or anything like that Those are the things that I that I hold on to when I get. When a when a when I start to question my career choices. 15:40.23 archpodnet I Know that feeling. Um, um, yeah, so how often do you get to go um, spend time with these communities. 15:53.29 Oona Well, it's been. It had been a while because of the pandemic. Um, but I was there recently for about three months about three months and and like I I said I'm from indoanao and and it's in my home province and so um you know um I get to also. 15:54.63 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 16:02.29 archpodnet A. 16:11.80 Oona Go home for better or worse and and at the same time. Go do that. So so that's sort of um, that's sort of interesting but before that yeah before I was at Ucla which I joined in 2019 I actually worked for the national University Of Singapore 16:27.37 archpodnet Hey. 16:29.18 Oona And so I was very very close. Um, you know it was like ah the 3 hour or three and a half hour flight or less to the Philippines direct flight um from Singapore and so when I worked there and I worked there for um, almost eight years um I was able to go. Um. You know on on brief trips. Go there for a week go there for a weekend go for a couple of weeks and and so that was I was there quite often over that stretch of time. Um, but I hadn't been back for a long extended period. Until just earlier this year from August to November so and then I'm going to go back again in February and March to um to finish up this book and and hopefully um, be able to hand it over and um. 17:27.24 Oona Yeah, so that's that's um, yeah, that's how often I not often enough I think I don't know that's kind of a weird answer to that question I don't know if you want to just delete that whole thing. Sorry yeah, okay. 17:38.66 archpodnet No, no, no, no, it's great. It's great. Um, and how you're you are doing great. Um, so is there anything. 17:45.69 Oona Okay, okay. 17:51.12 archpodnet Anything that you're like oh I feel like this needs to be talked about or mentioned um, anything that we missed. 18:01.55 Oona Um, um, ah well yeah, okay well I mean we talked about um, you know what direction you know I think it's going what direction I'd like for. 18:02.42 archpodnet And if not that's fine. We have enough but I just want to give you the opportunity. 18:18.46 Oona Things to go. Um I Guess I I wanted to sort of maybe um, ah add to that A little bit is that Um, what I would really like to see in terms of of where I work is to have the communities themselves um have the the power To. Um, be their own ethnographers and I don't mean just sort of that they that they collect. You know these sorts of data but that they become the gatekeepers of their own cultural knowledge and um, even though there's a process now where they have to. 18:51.80 archpodnet Yeah. 18:56.11 Oona That outside researchers have to be given free Py informed Consent. It's a fbic process. It's um, in in the law. Um in Practice. It's not really as ethical as it sounds and it's easily exploited but I'd really like for for. Ah. People in these communities to become ethnographers themselves and to become recognized scholars in their own right? Um, and not just as sort of research assistants. But as covestigors co-reseers co-authors um a true community partnership in in terms of academic research. Um, for them to be the the recognized authorities that people turn to when they have questions about you know that concern their particular populations. Um and to be in this in that capacity interact with other indigenous indigenous communities around the world. And beyond that I would really love to see and it would and it be a um, fantastic. Um outcome if you had ips indigenous peoples or or post-colonial native natives or minority communities Studying. Mainstream Majority Colonizer Communities I would really love to see that to have for example, Ahi Onon Lamad write an ethnography about people in L A I think that would yield very interesting results and I think that would really turn everybody's world or upside down. 20:21.26 archpodnet Is. 20:31.00 Oona And I can't wait for that to happen. 20:33.66 archpodnet Yes, yes, well on that note I mean Mike Drop no need to add anything there. Um I just want to say? Thank you again so much for for coming on the show and everybody ah makes sure to check out a mountain of difference than loo out an earlier quote. In ah, why do I always say that one wrong a mountain of difference the luma the lumad in early colonial mindda now. Um I'm going to say that one more time because I was laughing while I was saying it so sorry editors. Um. 20:52.78 Oona Or. 21:00.98 Oona Ah, yeah, okay, it's it's um, available from cornell unit Corona Cornell University press 21:12.77 archpodnet Okay, um, yeah, so everyone make sure you check out. Um from Cornell University Press a mountain of difference the lumad in early colonial mindda now and we will all look forward to your next books? um. And so excited for you that that oral history project is is wrapping up and everyone's so excited and again, just thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and ah, bringing a a new um, very interesting perspective for our listeners. 21:44.89 Oona Thank you very much for having me. It's been. It's been a lot of fun. 21:56.24 archpodnet I Don't know why it stopped stopping I'm trying to hit stop.