00:01.43 archpodnet All right? Okay, so we're back and you know, ah so I've had 2 conversations with you now one four and a half years ago and one now and. 00:16.97 archpodnet Okay, nevermind I want to ask that I think a little lighter because that makes sense to end with. Where do you want to go with all this sorry Chris or whoever's editing this my bad okay start over. So let's let's go to um, major learning or aha first. 00:24.25 ASHLEIGH Okay. 00:33.94 archpodnet If that's okay. 00:36.88 ASHLEIGH Yeah, that sounds great. 00:38.88 archpodnet all right? Okay, cool um all right okay so we're back from our break and I you know, ah thinking back on these these 2 conversations. So last time you know four and a half years ago and and this time ah you know in in this past like four and a half years since since we last talked. Um, what have been or have there been any any major learning or aha moments or or things. That um that you would want to to share with our audience. 01:22.93 ASHLEIGH Yeah, um, so 1 big one that I've been noticing in my work is that I'm a huge advocatelicate for tribal collaboration but it is much easier said than done. So um, there's a lot of constraints. Working with indigenous communities and I think 1 major 1 is time constraints so you know in academia and people that work with grants. Um, there's deadlines and there's like certain timelines that we. 01:54.82 archpodnet Right. 02:00.24 ASHLEIGH We're required to stick to and so um, but working with indigenous people like they have their own timelines and their own um hierarchy of needs that they work on and so for me just kind of seeing that play out in the the real world like. 02:06.74 archpodnet And. 02:19.74 ASHLEIGH We want to get feedback from a tribe. Um, and so we send something to them. Um, and it might take a while because you know the tribal council might only meet once a week or or once a month I mean and so there's um, definite like time constraints in in. Doing collaboration with tribe and then not only time constraints but there's also capacity constraints and so I am there's like a need for I think indigenous people to be involved in all types of community work. 02:45.82 archpodnet So. 02:58.14 ASHLEIGH Including tribal historic preservation and archeology. Um, but a lot of times those offices or those departments are really overburdened with work. They might not have the capacity to take on outside projects that aren't um. Sort of regulatory mandated projects and so um, it's really great. You know I when I hear people that want to like work with tribes or like do a project that gets approved by tribes. But before you do that. Just understand that there is a lot. Goes into running a tribal nation and that um, especially I think if you're an outsider to the community. You might not be like a top priority for time or for effort and so I think also that goes along well with like. Um, and I think ah it happens a lot more now than it used to. But um, thinking about how you can be in a reciprocal relationship with people you want to collaborate so whether that means giving them honor area or you know some sort of agreement you have to provide a service. Um, or whatever it may be think about like how can you give back to the community and don't it's not like a 1 way thing in a relationship it goes both ways and so that's some of the the major things I've learned I think the last few years 04:28.21 archpodnet So yeah, yeah, absolutely I'm always the super annoying when I'm putting in a proposal or or things like no, we need to we need to extend this timeline and make it as long as possible. Um, but um, and also I think 1 thing that you were touching on. 04:40.98 ASHLEIGH Okay. 04:45.85 archpodnet That is is really you know there was a moment not too long ago where this really was highlighted again for me. Um, is that what we're working on. It's important but also sometimes it's not that important compared to like the major things that. 05:05.88 archpodnet That the people that we're working with are having to deal with so you know because a lot of times we're working with tribal leadership or we're working with um you know, cultural leaders spiritual leaders and so sometimes the things that end up on their plates are just they're just I mean they're just. 05:08.79 ASHLEIGH A. 05:24.98 archpodnet A lot more important than what we're doing um, not that what we're doing is not important, but it's not life or death. Um, and so just kind of remembering that like in the scheme of things like what seems like. 05:27.28 ASHLEIGH Yeah, all right. 05:42.70 ASHLEIGH Um I will. 05:42.33 archpodnet The most urgent and important thing in the world to you like might not be in their top 10 you know, um and that that's okay, um, so that's yeah I was just thinking about that when you're saying that and there was a. 05:49.80 ASHLEIGH M. 05:56.81 archpodnet Ah moment not too too long ago that really like brought that into to focus again where it was like okay like they are doing really important things and you know when I can get their attention. That's um, that's great, but. You know it's not the most important thing So sorry went on a tangent there. But um, you know, kind of continuing on in that vein um is there a direction that you'd like to. 06:15.63 ASHLEIGH Yeah. 06:31.96 archpodnet I Mean you already were touching on this in what you were just saying but maybe there's other things that you'd like to add um of of what direction you'd like to see um you know anthropology or or tribal collaboration Efforts ah move to in the future like are there. What would you like to See. You know more of or less of or changes. 06:58.88 ASHLEIGH Right? Yeah, um I think that um one really big topic That's come up a lot lately with the Bears ears National monument. 07:16.49 ASHLEIGH Um, is this idea of tribal co-management and um, this recognition that indigenous people are the the first stewards of all of the land in North America um, and that we might know some things about managing them. So um. 07:32.65 archpodnet And. 07:36.23 ASHLEIGH I I really like um what the administration current administration is saying like the secretary Deb Holland um of the department of the interior of the importance of indigenous co-management of federally managed lands. Um. And so well I would like to like I love hearing that but I would like to see see actual tangible um examples and collaboration co-stewardship co-management of these lands and I think that. Um there's also like this ties really well into another hot topic right now which is the land back movement and um, it's it's a really um, neat movement. Um, and so I think like. 08:20.29 archpodnet And. 08:32.13 ASHLEIGH It can mean returning land to tribes. But it can also be just reinstating. Um, indigenous management practices and stewardship practices on the land and getting native people involved in. Um. 08:51.48 ASHLEIGH Stewardship and so for me, um, I'd I love I would love to see just like this conversation continue I hope that like land back in tribal comanagement isn't just a trend and that it's actual um, hopefully change in how our lands. Are managed and um I also you know I I follow um on my Google alerts I follow issues of land back and um, repatriation too of ancestral remains and. Material culture and so um I would just love to see you know, um these these policies actually executed I guess. 09:43.14 archpodnet Um, yeah, okay so now I okay again, 2 episodes four and a half years I I mean I'm just personally really curious. Um, first like okay no I'm not going to I always ask like. 09:44.53 ASHLEIGH Yeah. 09:57.61 ASHLEIGH Are. 09:59.45 archpodnet 4 questions and one I'm not going to do this I'll ask one and then I'll ask you the? Um, so first um, again I'd love to know more about you know where you personally would like to take this position. At archeology southwest specifically first? Um, so so you know your your dream vision for for what you'll be doing in this this work. We're accomplishing. 10:31.90 ASHLEIGH Um, I think that we're definitely working towards what I want to see which is true relationship building with the tribes whose lands we work on. Um, and so. 10:47.46 ASHLEIGH And really happy that we've made strides in that regard. We've formed, a tribal working group. Um, we are doing a lot of outreach to um, the local indigenous communities of Arizona and beyond and um. We're really trying to listen to Tippo's cultural and tribal leaders about um how our work can be useful and relevant to them and so I'd like to just keep heading in that direction and um I think like. Even before I came onto the job because I've been in it less than a year now they they they were doing a lot um to work with indigenous communities and as you mentioned like you had a whole episode on great bend of the gila and so um, there's like examples of that. Um, also. There is an example of we have one of our archeologists works in Chaco and does a lot of outreach with the New Mexico pueblos and other affiliated nations there and so just continuing in our relationship building and finding out ways. Um. 12:06.90 ASHLEIGH That we can help as an organization how we can help tribes accomplish their goals when it comes to protection of their cultural landscapes. 12:19.34 archpodnet Yeah, and okay, so the second part of my question since I'm not asking 2 questions in 1 is is there anything like maybe outside of archeology southwest um, that ah you know like any other thoughts of of where you'd like to go. Um, with with your work or um I don't know personally whatever just like um, any any additional visions that you have for for your future. 12:55.59 ASHLEIGH Yeah, so one thing I've been involved over the last decade is on help a desire to help um protect. 13:12.50 ASHLEIGH You know water the Earth more than human can from the climate crisis and so um I think like overall you know in my work right now we're working on preserving cultural landscapes through national conservation areas. Through um, stewarding certain properties that we are either buy or are given to us. Um, and I think that helps contribute um to helping to heal the earth. From the climate crisis and so um, I'm sure I mean people that are at least in touch with news and Indian country. Um,, there's been some research you know that shows that um, indigenous people. And indigenous lands protect a large percentage of the world's biodiversity and um I I Really think that um you know preservation work like what we do at Archeology Southwest can. Help um, protect more lands and um, especially when we are working with indigenous communities and so I I would say like that's a major goal of mine. Um, as someone who is really um. 14:49.95 ASHLEIGH Outside a lot as an outdoor recreationalist like running hiking climbing that sort of thing and as someone who's attended um, quite a few events aimed at um, stopping. Harm to the Earth So Like for example, um, attending the no Dakota Axis Pipeline camps and when that was going on on the standing rock reservation or like advocating for the protection of bears years and or advocating. 15:15.20 archpodnet I. 15:27.92 ASHLEIGH For the protection of oak flat here in Arizona which is currently under threat from mining um threats I think that um that that's my overall vision is to just help. Um. 15:29.40 archpodnet A. No no. 15:46.31 ASHLEIGH Curb The the harms caused by um, capitalism seller colonialism in terms of like um, protecting sacred sites because when we protect the archeological Material. We're also protecting like. The biodiversity and and the land and so I see archeology and indigenous archeology as a way to not only preserve our sacred sites but also like everything and everyone that lives within them. 16:21.38 archpodnet Right? right? and that brings up the the regularly scheduled reminder that um, cultural or natural resources are cultural resources and that um you know cultural resources are not just archeology but but include all of those intangibles. Um, that you were just discussing that that are not necessarily like fitting into that category of of Archeology. Um, and yeah, um, and I also want to put in a shout out um to the fact that you also did an episode. 16:45.44 ASHLEIGH Exactly. 16:56.96 archpodnet Um, with the a life in ruins podcast indigenous archeology and the save heritage campaign with Ashley Thompson so that's their episode one thirty two which man Carlton came on this podcast before he started that podcast. Ah, you can tell that they do a weekly one and we only do a monthly because one hundred and thirty two that's impressive. Um, but anyway ah definitely check out that episode as well. So again, a life and ruins episode one thirty two indigenous archeology and the save heritage campaign. 17:16.17 ASHLEIGH Um, ah yeah. 17:31.75 archpodnet Um I believe that you you mentioned that you tried to kind of keep it a little different so there would still be good stuff if people listen to both right. 17:40.92 ASHLEIGH Correct. There's some overlap but I tried to to think of new additional things to add. 17:49.44 archpodnet Yes, Well, even even if there is overlap I'm sure it's it's worth re-listening to because there's lots of like great little nuggets in there of like oh yeah, that's a great reminder about this and you know oh yeah, that's an important topic. So I I would say I can pretty much guarantee. It's worth listening to both. 18:03.58 ASHLEIGH Hey. 18:09.38 archpodnet Um, and you know the first episode with with Ashley on this podcast again. So episode 21 so you got you got lots of opportunities to to learn from from Ashley. So so again I just wanted to say. Thank you so much for for coming on again. Taking you know, probably 4 hours out of your life now between these 2 episodes to come talk to me and and um to educate our listeners about all of these different amazing topics. Um, so thank you to you and and thank you to archeology southwest for. For all the work that you guys are doing. 18:50.95 ASHLEIGH Thank you for having me and us.