00:00.58 archpodnet Okay, we are back in our conversation about black cemeteries and I want to keep going with some things that that you were both just touching on which is basically. Your vision basically for where you would like this conversation and um movement political will legislation etc where you would like to get to in the future. Um, on this topic. 00:41.30 Delande Um, um's see future vision of this topic. Um I'm trying to be careful with how I word this I don't want to seem I don't want to ever position any sort of approach against another. But I really would love to see um more you know around what we what we understand as you know I think I'm thinking of Kristina Sharp here her her quote though you know this call to defend the dead and norbs say phillips. You know to defend the dead. Ah what? what it? what sort of. Actions what sort of measures we can understand will do that kind of labor. We'll take on a kind of defense work. We know that there have been a a couple forms of legislation that have been proposed and have been you know sort of um, stalled on the congressional floor. Um, but to a couple None colleaguegs of mine brilliant cogs of mind. Chip colliwell and Justin Dunnavan we wrote that the article to you know, craft an agra something along the lines of an african american grave protection and repatriation act. But the the policy and legislation um has only ever done so much for. For the protection of of of black life and ah and for the preservation of our heritage. So I would love to see and you know terms of future visions. What? Ah what what? community? What? what sort of community projects. We can uplift and empower what sort of institutional leeway. Can we use to support. On the groundwork and what sort of collaborations can we can we can we propose that will get sort of that will get some of this work done. Um, um, on a sort of regional level and on ah in a very like in a realtime renovate practical way in the many ways that we've seen advocacy and activist efforts done. Um, in black communities in in historically there's never been. There's there's always been an impetus. You know do what we can in the now as opposed to only relying on the very systems and structures that so often get and get in our way if I can say um. And so you know there are these foundations the the oneran and an Nsf and institutions the Smithsonian certain college and universities are putting ah putting putting a foot forward in terms of like naming their their investment and sort of None to support this this this shift in in how. Black remains writ large are protected preserved and and tended to with care and what does that look like um in in practice and and with that that investment what does that investment look like and in terms of like what's happening at the community level I'm thinking even here in Dc now. Um. 03:19.67 Delande Building on. there's that the there's the there's the Maryland so ah, omiganess, but the Montgomery County um so cemetery inventory where these um, both paid and unpaid. Um, um, community cultural workers went back into the archive and found this um inventory of local cemeteries. And so saw so many gaps in the system that they themselves chose to do an updated version with particular attention turned towards the the ah cemeteries in the blackwood cemeteryies other cemeteries in the margins that weren't tended to so this is the kind of like on the ground community level work I'm thinking about that I think could really be bolstered. Um, by by the the by many avenues of support that could you know in in the meantime while we wait for policy and legislation to kick in um, but think that could really take on some of that work. Um, like I said that has always been happening in the history of um, advocacy advocacy and activism. Um. And I would also love to see of ah speaking of collaborations a lot of of whom an intentional um, speaking across um between um, you know an indigenous indigenous ah resistance and and and but and black resistance in terms of you know, ah this idea of like erasure of our ancestors. Because when I'm thinking about and I'm particularly thinking of Tiffany Tiffany Lefabo King her book the black schultz oh my goodness you know chefs see if if I could um she has a chapter in there speaking about how when we're thinking about the erasure of land. 04:40.11 Antoinette Yeah, yeah, yeah. 04:51.48 Delande What sort of ratios had to already come previously to that that we aren't even acknowledging at my own site I'm thinking about you know these multi-levels of erasure. You know a multimillion dollar block of homes ah removed a black potential black cemetery from the cultural landscape but we also know that Georgetown. Was home to a number of and of of indigenous tribes who were primary who were none erased before these other secondary tertiary ordinaryary reformers were rich could even happen so you know thinking how we can um, not ah of course never ever to pit. Resistance is against None another but to see that the the to see the the sort of same colonial capitalist root of our anceststra erasure and approach them in a in a and a a beautifully productive coalition of politic um that that and ah, ah, that's that that work has already begun. So much of the work that I do has been informed by um, um, our and indigenous of support systems that have ah that have continued to push for niare to be implemented across nationwide institutions. So this work is already happening but similar to my previous sentiment I can I would love to I envision. Ah, future where so much more of it is happening in so many more powerful ways I kind of ramble there I apologize. 06:10.57 Antoinette And no I mean I don't think you've rambled but I think really you articulated that it is a comprehensive strategy and I think often because groups are often marginalized. They're battling all kinds of intensive pressures around. Ah. Funding around land ownership land ownership land acknowledgement that they really don't have a chance a lot of times to think about it in a comprehensive way. People go down their silo and they're fighting their own more or focused on their own. You know, particular issue. And you know that is part of the system that creates that kind of pressure for people to to worry about the thing right in front of them and I think now one of the things that I'm thinking about is that these these. Pieces of legislation that are out there right now the current one the the national legislation AhHR none african american barrier grounds preservation act and saying what it's the senate bill 3 6 none that has been an evolution. 07:08.85 archpodnet Are. 07:20.94 Delande Um, a. 07:22.25 Antoinette Ah, in terms of None way to address this issue of preservation of black cemeteries and inventory and acknowledgement of the the situation but that is one again that is one resource the national park service or the department of interior. This problem is so much bigger than that and some of the things you're getting at so we need to look at housing and urban hud we need to look at the department of transportation because highways were built over these sites and these kinds of things. These are the big money funders. These are the big levels of institutional structures. 07:48.61 Delande A. 07:59.30 Antoinette That are built over top of these peoples black people, Native communities and things like that. So We don't we we need to diversify and and create a comprehensive portfolio and fight on all kinds of fronts because we are often left trying to the this current legislation right Now. Can't handle all the things and all the issues and that's we are left all trying to to get into that one piece of legislation and get everything done and that's a very small amount of money and a small amount of reach. So We you know we really need to continue to take these concerns that you've outlied. Dlen and then some of the things that if you look at the black Cemetery Network All the different kinds of issues and concerns all these various different groups have and really go ah after some of the larger. Aspects of the problem or put it all Together. We don't need to just stop at one thing. It's not just one solution and we shouldn't be concerned with you know, totally trying to get all of our issues met So My idea would be to you know continue to to diversify these conversations but actually not lose sight of. For me this particular issue that I'm focused on are black cemeteries but that doesn't put us out of the conversation with all kinds of other communities and groups that have ah experienced similar things and that that means once you elevate it up to these some other these other political levels that you can. 09:14.18 Delande And. 09:30.56 Antoinette You know, start to incorporate that and I really think the most underrepresented person in this conversation is the new department of interior secretary I can't even call her name right now and I I love her work right now and I'm inciting it all the time. Um. 09:48.52 archpodnet Deb Holland Deb Holland yes yeah 09:49.41 Antoinette Jessica could you? You know? what's the department of interior secretary Gen Deb Hallen yes I love yes Deb Hallen's work that she is doing ah putting all kinds of pressure. 09:51.59 Delande Um, that that deb and the secretary. Yeah. 10:01.63 archpodnet Yeah. 10:05.89 Antoinette On the national park service. Although I said that's just 1 entity but in that entity she is really showing you know how to ah dismantle some of these kind of systemic issues around language I mean I saw that she got a lot of these words changed from. 10:07.54 Delande Um, and. 10:09.10 archpodnet A. 10:21.51 archpodnet Um e. 10:23.20 Antoinette You know the derogatory terms that have been named some of these sites have been named I really was impressed I really am impressed by all the ways in fronts that she's dealing with these issues and there's a lot I think we can learn and and we should be in conversation. Definitely directly with someone like that and again like I said. 10:27.95 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:41.58 Antoinette Up to the housing and Urban development level transportation Buttigieg get all these people in these because they have pools and resources that can help us address these problems and to deal with these coalitions of people all around these local coalitions of people who need funding. These local communities then and people and individuals who need funding and so and need the resources and it's often the caregivers the descended communities or maybe the caregivers versus the landowner Sometimes the property owners are big. 11:13.16 Delande We have everything. 11:17.24 Antoinette You know gas companies or utility companies or somebody else. They don't but there are other people who are tending to the graves to the sites and those folk need the resources to continue the work that they're doing and they're often overlooked in some of these kinds of legislations that deal with more at the property Owners standpoint. So We need to think about all those kinds of things and bring those and not lose sight of like I said starting at the grassroots level those people who are actively every day been dealing with these issues and how do we best resource what they are trying to do. As we move forward. So My my ah vision would be really to learn from these local caregivers these individual cemetery caregivers and groups who are really working every day to to memorialize and to you know, tell these stories and preserve these stories and so they need. They need all the help that we're doing from the University level to all the levels that we have been addressing in this Conversation. So I'm excited to be part of it and to again to in some way help expand this as best we can from wherever we are wherever we are whatever resources. We have to bear. 12:33.53 archpodnet Yeah, so I mean just looking at the black Cemetery network. It looks like you can um you know, dive down by State. So For example, if you have a specific state where you're located and you wanted to support a black cemetery in that state. Um, you know there's the website to the organization that supports that cemetery you could donate to that Organization. You could donate to the black Cemetery network. Um, if you're interested in in supporting these efforts. Also it looks like um, excuse me. 12:59.40 Antoinette Ah. 13:10.80 archpodnet The national trust for historic preservation has um, a ah link where you can put in your support. Um for the preservation of african american burial grounds legislation that Dr Jackson mentioned um, and I know that there's lots of other organizations that are also you know working on this work or or similar work. Um, that maybe should get a shout out at this point so um, are there any other organizations that you want to. Mention if people are interested in in making donations or other kinds of support. 13:49.29 Antoinette For me to well this oh go ahead. Dylan go ahead. 13:49.96 Delande Um, if I can quickly I would oh sorry. Okay thank you was if I quickly I would be remiss to not I mention my 2 of my co-conspirator and so ah collaborators are both. Ah. The black in Bio Bioanth collective the black and biologic anthropology collective. Um as well as society for black archaeologists None initiatives who I work very closely with and who are so amongst many other institutes of ah coalition such as the association for black anthropologists who are just so deeply committed to. Using our anthropological theoretical and methodological practices to inform this in real-time on the ground work to you know better but to to to better better protect and preserve. Well how we you know both black life in the past and present. So um, these are 3 3 coalitions 3 3 groups that are I would that I really do need to to uplift in the in this conversation. 14:49.92 Antoinette Yeah, and I would also like to make sure I named like like I said I think in the beginning or early on the african american cemetery coalition out of North Carolina has ah is a very strong ah regional Lee focus group that have really been doing a lot of work on the on the ah. Grassroots level to ah to address some of the many concerns that we've talked about in this conversation and in Tampa the African American Cemetery Alliance is a ah group of people who are different people in Tampa bay area who are working you know these issues. And and then all of the people on the leadership team of the black cemetery network if you go out there. You'll see what a very strong team of people I have and growing anybody who wants to be part of it but I would like to thank all the people on the on the on the the leadership team of the black cemetery network. 15:36.30 archpodnet Ah. 15:44.55 Antoinette From their creative design of the network itself Kaylee Hoyt to the actual ah the spoken word to creative artist Walter Jennings and all the other people on the black cemetery network leadership and you'll see that and then the african american burial ground and remembering project. Which University Of South Florida funded to work on the zion cemetery project in the oak lawn evergreen and Moffatt cemeteries in the st pete area. So those have been very very influential and to the work to me and and and helpful. And supportive and part of many of these kinds of projects that I've talked about today. So definitely want to give a shout out to those folks. 16:28.80 archpodnet Okay, so since we only have a couple of minutes left is there anything that you're like if I don't say this today I will not forgive myself what you know if there's None thing that you want people to know about this topic. Um, or the you know or the people in the cemeteries or connected to the cemeteries if there's None takeaway you wanted for people. Um, what would it be. 16:59.85 Antoinette For me again the tech. The main thing is black cemeteries are black. History. None of the main ways to know and learn about black folk and history is through the cemetery and even before this project. Oftentime when I did research in different communities I would go to the cemetery to learn family names and and ah things about the linkage between the cemetery and the church and and those kinds of things and that gave me entree into the community. And so learning about and restoring the history and heritage associated with these cemeteries help us to learn about our communities learn about people in these communities that you know have often been forgotten that were integral parts of the history of different places so it is essential. That the preservation and stories about these families and folk associated with these cemeteries or buried in these cemeteries become known because this is a essential part of black history and to memorialize them is our I think it is our. Really our sacred duty to to to bring this continuity so I definitely want people to know that and it's just more than a project. It is is it's what must be done. 18:26.51 Delande Wow. Ah, beautifully put I don't know what more can say on top of that. Oh but I ah that I that I do try to get across and I know I softly mentioned earlier is that ah the ways that we the ways that we honor. Ways that we respect those who have passed is a reflection of how we honor those who are alive and in no way shape or form is any Anyone's life better than and more important than anyone else's why are there so many? Um, why is it that there are so many cemeteries for you know those in power if you will look put in in the. In broad scare quotes that are still around since the eighteen hundred seventeen hundreds whereas there are others who are being destroyed as we speak, you know who's and and when when we think about these these matters whose life are we stay is more important than someone else's is ah is what I tried to so I best tried to articulate and ah and what what people take away the most from you know my efforts and the works around. It. 19:31.50 archpodnet All right? Well thank you both so much for coming on today I I have a lot more questions as you both know we have a longer list than this but you know sadly that never enough time to talk about all of the things. Um. 19:41.20 Antoinette A. 19:47.98 archpodnet But thank you so much for sharing and talking about this really important. Ah, that's an understatement topic. So so again, thank you and I just really appreciate both of you coming on and sharing. 20:02.35 Antoinette Yes I have. 20:02.82 Delande Thank.