00:00.00 archpodnet Okay, so we're gonna dive right back in so can you talk about? Ah, you know you mentioned some of your work at Keystone. Can you talk about some topics or issues that are really a front of mind with your work right now. Yeah I think the the biggest things that I think I've seen um, really come out over the last and really transpire over the last couple years has been with conservation organizations ngos around how to build stronger relationships with tribes. You know. When they talk about stewardship when they talk about um, recreating outdoors. This is something that we as indigenous people have always done right? It's embedded in our Dna so we don't have we don't have a we don't have words for that in our languages or at least the utes. Don't don't but we just have we applied different definitions to that and I think when it's a part of your everyday existence and um, hiking fourteeners Fourteen Thousand Foot peaks may not be the everyday thing that utes do today but the pathways and and you know that are now highways over. Mountains like Colorado and other areas around the rockies have always been indigenous and there's a place of that. But when we talk about public lands and the awareness especially in like Colorado and western states around advocating for people to get outside to enjoy the outdoors that this is all. For you. There needs to be an acknowledgement there needs to be an understanding like how do you educate? the person who's just flying into Denver Denver national airport just for the weekend weekend warrior we like to call them that just go to vall and they want to experience the veil experience and then go back to de and flies back to wherever they're from. Like it's do you really get a chance to educate that individual who knows but when he or she are out there and maybe wants to explore a hiking trail in Vale. Or wants to stop in and learn about something at the visitor center like those conversations are now starting. They're they're they're getting out there more because the outdoor recreation office is advocating that more tribal voices be at the table that the information that they share is legitimate. It's not just some stuff. That they thought of or saw in a movie or something like that from thirty forty years ago that it's actually consistently updated and that builds stronger partnerships and I think that also starts feeding into these conservation groups that have um that have continued to hold stewardship at the top of mine. 05:26.80 archpodnet At the top of their goal now participating with tribes around wow what does conservation look like with tribes. What does co-management look like what does land back mean should instead of transferring the land to another none party or individual or whatever. Why is that. Not transferred over over to tribes um or organizations helping on tribal lands. You know we we at you mountain are right in the southwestern part of the state. So we're very much dependent on water that's coming from the dolores river. It's coming from the Sam Miguel River from the animus going through jurango we have water rights based on those but because of the drought that we're currently in our farm and ranch enterprise which is a seven thousand Acre Ranch it's cattle calf operation. It's um. 80% alfalfa hay and the other 20% corn that goes into local grocery stores. We grow it. We mill it. We package it on site. We send it out to your nearest salbertsons or your nearest whole foods or your nearest sprouts that's that's entrepreneurship right? That's what we can do that's with the future of the tribe. But when droughts like that hit. And we have temorrisk issues or we have you know olive tree issues or other invasive species on these waterways that we cannot maintain of ourselves because of capacity issues or whatever else those partnerships with those groups. Those ngos are hugely important and I think that's where the partnerships can continue to move forward. I'm not just talking about the usual issues between like mountain climbers or rock climbing you know trespassing on a tribal lands kind of stuff. Yes, we need to do more education there but it goes back to educating that weekend warrior wanting to to have a great time and avail or wherever else on the western slope. Hope that at some point there's a touch point where some type of information is shared and hopefully that ends up plant a seed. But I think that's where we start getting into the conversation around co-management and I think that's what I'm seeing now is the biggest question these conservation groups and others. Talking about It's also the federaled government now. Believe it or not two months ago congress committee on natural resources in congress held its first its its none hearing in in its history with tribes talking about what co-management means the none time none time. Ever that that we're talking about comanment and there is an author and I'm I'm forgetting his name right now but had penned an article in The Atlantic talking about should national parks be returned to tribes or advocating that they should be returned so the conversation is out there and not just for ah I think tribes in. 11:06.94 archpodnet The United States or even native villages up in Alaska but native hawaiians in Hawaii I mean have always I mean the conversation, especially now that we're seeing the national growth in national parks coming out of covid people want to get out want to experience something they haven't experienced before. To hit the road want to go out see mee suburbity national park when it goes to cany of the ancients and please yes, come see the umountain travel park but all of that is means that you know we need be prepared for that population growth and we need to start thinking about different ways to manage our federal lands and part of that is the comanagement system. No matter what your politics are. That's what the intent at least what one of the biggest things I was excited to see in the designation of bears ears national monument was that it was going to be the first attempt to be able to have a tribes as an official co-management position just think about what that would have given us insight to. Into historical cultural ecological traditional knowledge that's emphasizing there now that we're talking in seeing huge drought conditions in the southwest. What's going on in the Colorado River in the upper basin lower basin. The fact that we don't have tribes at least for the utes that've been around according to the archeologist 10 to 12000 years according to my people since time immemorial. But whoever's timeline we're going after we've been around for a long time. So I would think that you'd want to have the best knowledge capable to solve the problem of tomorrow and I think that's why we need to consistently advocate that indigenous voices be at the table because. If it's anything else every time I go out to um, go out to the tribal park or grow out on a hike with my family. You know one thing that I do is take a pause and just hear the silence right? There's power in silence and I think that. When I hear that silence if it's if it's the wind if it's the birds if it's whatever it is. It's what I'm hearing I'm hearing are you songs I'm hearing our you language because it's it's there and the moment we tend to forget about that. Lose sight of that then we start going different direction and I feel like it's not the right direction that we need to be on and so I think that when we start talking about co-management. It opens up more conversations to getting us to a land back scenario or a scenario where we're educating. Not just the weekend warrior but the student that's going to school in Boulder Colorado that also took a trip to the nearest park and found out that all these different uses or of these medicinal plants that additional cultures had used to sustain us for generations. 16:51.58 archpodnet I think that's power. Yeah, and I think I think a lot of people when they think of co-management they think of um, you know we're going to work with this tribe and we're going to find out all of their traditional ecological knowledge and it's going to help us. You know, better manage and I think um. From ah from an outside perspective. 1 of the most important things that I think tribes bring to the table is just like this sense of of respect for the land that is so much deeper than um, you know like a lot of. A lot of us white people talk about respecting the land. But it's like in ah in a totally different level that I think um is necessary if we're going to make real change. Um, you know like in the face of of climate change. For example. Um, that you have to really um, change some mindset in addition to just you know like okay well they say that this plant grows better with this and you know like oh if we burn it like last episode this is probably going to come after and it'll grow better. You know it's it's more than just um, like taking these little facts. And incorporating it into a you know already planned out to the the nines management plan. It's it's really, um, bringing different perspectives to the table. Um, anyway before I get off on a. Side note, but I do want to talk about land back a little bit more because that's something that you and I have have been talking about more recently and has come up um in a couple different ways and so I'd really first of all, can you can you explain what? land back is. And um, can you tell us more about um what you're seeing with it and maybe where you'd like to see it go absolutely well I think the the examples that I've seen thus far around the country. The successful examples of land back is really essentially that it's land being returned to tribes or a coalition of tribes. There's an example in Northern California where the redwoods a portion of the redwoods were returned I think over none were returned to a coalition of tribes. 21:38.52 archpodnet Um, same thing most recently I think in Montana who also had similar things um and or even just to individual tribes that had once and and continuously called that area home. Um I think that I think there's a ah couple different avenues ways to get to land back but eventually. Really It's returning that land. That's ultimately the the goal I think there are also some some benefits for co-management I think um, a lot of times the um tribes at least in my experience. My tribe. Um. 1 person's wearing multiple hats so having a partnership would expand the capacity that may otherwise be put on somebody some some position that was already um, overstaffed or overwhelmed with other projects going on I think there's so there's a capacity issue sometimes. Ultimately though the agreement you know that we see in Colorado a couple different things um, identifying locations as the relationship builds and gets stronger with tribal nations about what type of land. This government local government or state government overseas and I mean let's be honest I mean the the land that these places um expanded were at the displacement of indigenous groups right? Broken treaties or whatever it might be and so there needs to become awareness. I mean if we just. Jumped over to city officials like we see in a lot of ah areas of our work and just automatically throw that out there. They're they're going to be a little bit surprised and we're kind of little nervous about what what's going on because I also don't expect them to have taken. That elective course in their college or higher ed career. So a lot of times the information that we're sharing about indigenous knowledge is not there yet and I think to your point we also have to be very careful as indigenous people of how much we share. Because we've seen throughout history that whatever we have shared has been taken from us and has been sold or has made other people rich and it's been at our benefit and yes we could turn that back clock be a lot of different things I'd love to do including trademarks. But. You know that's ah, that's time for another podcast. But I think that that it's it's important that when we talk about land back at least in my opinion. There's there's the journey of the tribal history that what can be shared so that that these city state county officials. 27:15.34 archpodnet They see they can connect the dots like we connect the dots and we bring them along along with it so that they understand. Oh yeah, you're right? This is why this should transfer to a co-management pis is at the end of the day though I've always felt all the way going back. None of my very none lessons in the nagtra example with the state. Was unless the tribes unlessly unless it's tribally driven. It's most likely to fell. Yeah, and I think that because tribes have often left been left out of the boardroom or the decision making table. Um. The the likelihood of of failure is very high in those situations. It's when you we have and we work hard to consistently keep those tribal voices at the table with us and they're driving the conversation. They're giving the directions. That's I think when we're going to see that success and I think that. That comes in in a partnership. Okay, so again, we're we're getting real close to the end of the episode but I just want to see if there's anything else that you're really excited about or or looking towards vision wise in the future. Um, or if you know land back is it then if there was anything else. Um that you ah you know wanted to ah, explain to our listeners. So for example, if you have ah a soapbox that it's like ah if I could just have everybody know this one thing the world would be such a better place. Um, I'll leave you that that option between those None questions. Wow well I think I mean it's a great question to end on and I wish I had a better answer for it. But I think at the end of the day my call to action is is ultimately that that I hope that. Ah, your listeners who are not of the indigenous perspective or even um, um of their heritage or culture that you continue to educate yourself on Tribalitions. You don't have to be. On the front lines to be a tribal advocate. You don't have to be in the halls of congress to continue. You know, being out there. You can very much be an advocate and a supporter in your local community and I think advocating and getting involved. Um and encouraging your your own your kids your family. To um to support some of those some great films out there short films around outdoor recreation if. That's your thing or if it's conservation if that's your thing. Whatever it is. We're seeing more and more indigenous authors. Um indigenous programs reservation dogs on hulu. 32:50.52 archpodnet You know, um and now with dark ski coming out in other areas. I mean there are just great and we need to bring awareness. We need to bring recognition to more indigenous authors and and having their place and being given that recognition. Ah, small thing. It's small thing but it's a huge thing at the end of the day that I think we end up seeing more but otherwise after this I think looking forward to continuing building the relationships between local government Tribes States tribes and gos tribes and european museums and tribes there was an effort. We launched a handful of years ago to build a relationship to hopefully return repatriate items that were taken and and are now residing in european museums I'll tell you that there is an interest in doing that I've seen it firsthand. And I think there's some groups here in the United States that are advocating for that as well. it's time to take a it's time to update nagpra b it's time to take nagpra international and and I think that there's an opportunity if anything to expand our federal and state policies that we can better over time and experience. Update those. And and have a better position moving forward bringing all this big stuff right? at the end I want to hear about the international repatriation efforts I want to hear about changes to nagpra I want to hear about all the things we'll just have to talk more another another time. But um, thank you so much for for coming on and taking this time I for one know how busy your schedule is so I really appreciate you taking the time to while you were down here. Come sit with me. So. Thank you ah to go back close enough. That's great. The way.