00:00.00 archpodnet Okay, so we're back and one point that I wanted to say about what you were just talking about too is that you know that process that you guys worked out. It really seems like it's the base of now a lot of other people's processes like federal agencies and and people like that. Um, with you know, ah the u tribes being kind of this none responder role or um or you know taking over if if there's no climates sort of a situation so it it seems like it really had um, big impact for the the state of Colorado at least. But um, and hopefully you know other states as well that those tribes you know all those 48 tribes took that back and um, hopefully made things better where they are too. But um so I wanted to hear more about a couple other examples of of some things. Um. From your time at ccia in addition to your work with the ancestors. Absolutely absolutely. So um I think that the none None example with Mcmorri at the Carra commission of indian affairs um ended up being my work with the shine rappo tribes. Um. Which is something that I'd never had been involved or engaged with um, moving from southwestern colorado the denver area front range of colorado majority of the population in the denver metro area. It's not you. It's plains tribes. You know the majority of the population represent the ah siou nations nakota dakota and lakota the fastest growing is the ney navajo nation members living in urban areas. Um colorado's native american population is about 2% of the state's population which is very similar to the national. united states numbers nationally american indians represent 2% of the total us population so colorado mirrors that but again because our 2 tribes are located in southwestern colorado people might assume that the largest population is in southwestern colorado but actually it's in the denmer metro area. Including ah said which is a 7 county district including boulder county anyways so when I got involved with working with shine rappo tribes. It was just really um, getting jumping into the deep end of the pool about learning about shiine rapo and you can't learn about. That with obviously without learning about the sand creek massacre and so in 2007 is when the sand creek massacre um national historic site was dedicated then senator ben campbell championed it was a big champion of it with tribal leaders. Um. 05:32.58 archpodnet Develop or or instituted at the time. Um, think it was 2007 and build check me on that. But um, but the the process and and then being a part of the conversation with the state of Colorado and other institutions about. How to appropriately tell the story of Sand Creek which for those that don't know is one of the worst massacres of American Union and in us history. Um, it was done at the hand of the us calvary led by Colonel John Shivington um at at the time in the eighteen um seventy s it was 1860 s 1870 s there was state officials that had then territorial governor John Evans had um, actually wrote an op-ed piece in the rocky mountain news calling for. The um settlers the residents of the time of of new to be state of Colorado to take up arms and to kill indians in the state kill hostile indians that Colorado had an indian problem right? and this was during that timeframe I'm sure a lot of people. Um, no one and have read about. But um, this none this they call it the bloodless third that colonel shevington um was was in charge of they trained right outside of Boulder Colorado and Valmont Community Of Valmont and then they traveled to the eastern plains near present day eads colorado where the shirapo tribes had been um, had been told to stay and and to be located and that they would not be harmed and chief black kettle was given a white flag. Um, and in and a Us flag and the white flag he was told was going to obviously signal that they were that his encampment was not going to be charged upon if there were any calvary units around at the time when they heard the calvary charging he rose the flag. Calvary over a 8 hour period wiped out over 200 mostly women, children and elderly of the shirapo people and that's the site that people can visit today. The national historic site that's managed by the national park system. Um, and so I started working more on this and and. Working with tribal representatives over the years in consultation and talking about the history learning of these stories I mean one of the most impactful was was the spiritual healing run that happens every year to commemorate in honor what their ancestors did when running in snow it was. 11:10.52 archpodnet Held during Thanksgiving I always remember every thanksgiving that's like the only thing I think about um, along with you know what? my family is doing too. But I always remember that time because today these Southern China rappo Northern Cheyenne and northern rappo will send bus loads. Of family members and and of youth and these young members these these young youth members of their tribe will run in teams in relay teams ah for three days from eads to the west steps of the capitol building and they ran in snow they ran in rain hail hot. Days I mean whatever it is they run in remembrance of of their ancestors and you can't be moved by that type of experience when you see it and when they would get to the state capital they would actually walk the the last mile because. In Colonel Shevington's um, um, in his unit. There was None individuals that really particularly stood out one was um, lieutenant Joseph Kramer and um Captain Silas Soulle who withheld their mens that from from. Charging into the encampment and in fact, if it wasn't for um, for Silas Soul he wrote letters back to his mother and it was based on those letters that ended up court marshaling shivington and keeping then territorial governor John Evans from becoming the none governor. Colorado because of their involvement and their you know direction of of what happened at San Creek and what played out San Creekg and so every year I'd work with the shinerrapo tribes on the run. We'd do a proclamation at the west steps. Always welcome them and then it wasn't until when I was working with Governor Hickenlooper um I believe it was none that um, Governor Hickenlooper was the none governor in the state of Colorado to issue an apology on behalf of the state to the tribes for for what happened at Sand Creek and you know there's so much emotions I think wrapped up in that and then working for an elected official who's not native who didn't have to do the apology could just continue on like other folks had had done. Um, it was pretty moving to be able to see that happen firsthand. And to see elders and to see these children that were there that did this 3 day run that ended up being at this state Capitol um, but the biggest thing I think was what happens next right? And that's the same thing that I told governor hickenlooper at the time was. 16:52.80 archpodnet You know, just because if you do this apology that doesn't mean that everything's back to? Okay, you know this apology should have happened a long long time ago and so now we have to continue working on this relationship. We have to better our. Communities. Both of our communities by learning from this and moving forward I feel like that's also why silas soul wrote those letters and why they ended up court marshaling these individuals because we have to call people out for doing bad things and if anything history. That's what history is right? If we don't learn from it. We're bound to repeat it and so I think that that's been the biggest one of the biggest messages and and biggest things I've been able to these 2 things have have working with other individuals have who have clearly been I mean I just happen to come in at the at you know. Conversation was already starting with nagpra in the state of Colorado the conversation had been going on between the shinerapo tribes and the state of Colorado now was the next chapter now was but these moments laid huge frameworks and added to the groundwork that had already been done of the foundation to. Establish better working relationships between a state and a tribe everybody is aware and we should know and respect the federal tribal relationship that's important laid out in the United States constitution but what's not talked about enough in my opinion is the state tribal relationship and if you look at court cases right now. If you look at Mcgirt in Oklahoma if you look at Martinez V Wyoming if you look at anything that goes on it starts at the state level. It starts at a local impact something happened to the state that's challenging it that of course rises the issue above it if there were better working relationships in Oklahoma. Would magirt or iqua be where it's at maybe not if there was better relationships in Montana or Wyoming would Martinez Vw wyoming and off reservation hunting being a big deal in Yellowstone perhaps not or would American Indians be able to have better access to vote in South Dakota then they do now if there were better working relationships between the state and the tribes I I hold those examples of like where we need to go and that even though there's been so much already in Colorado that's done how much further we need to go. And was that um South Dakota or North Dakota during covid where the um where the tribe was blocking off the highway and okay South Dakota yeah but yeah, another example of a situation that. 22:18.28 archpodnet Could have been vastly better handled with with better relationships from the beginning. Um, so okay, so we we've been talking about um your time at cc I a I don't know why I said that weird C Cia um and um. Let's talk now. Ah more about your current work at Keystone. Um, what can can you give us some examples of um, what you are working on there and then maybe also um, why you wanted to switch from. A state role to a a private and a found it nonprofit okay to a nonprofit ah situation. Yeah, um, so I'd spent um about 12 years at the state and um, those 3 governors 4 lieutenant governors. But. Um, not counting and numerous tribal leaders including my father who I got a chance to work with and that was at sometimes very odd. Um as someone who's supposed to represent the state sitting across the table with my father who's the elected. Chairman of a federally recognized tribe and sometimes the state was not in agreement with the tribal stance and that was that but that created very interesting dinner conversation after the meeting. Um, but my father was was a great um teacher and and. Always had this teachable moment. But anyways, um, so then I transitioned to the keystone policy center and I want to start by saying the keystone policy center. We're not affiliate with the keystone pipeline. So just I use these because some people say keystone and where it's Keystone Colorado we're actually headquartered in Keystone colorado um, and we have an office in denver we have an office in dc and the keystone policy center is a nonprofit that was established in 1975 and it was meant to it followed along the lines if folks know about the aspen institute but the keystone policy center brought. Goal is to bring different perspectives to the table to to find common ground for the attempt to find common ground so was always jumping into complex issues and when I thought about when I wanted to leave the state and where I wanted to go to? um. I wanted to continue the work that I'd been doing with like not just the nag for example or the same the sand creek example or nativeve american mascots or you know on and on but it was to continue kind of creating these examples. 27:47.36 archpodnet Expanding them at the local level but then taking them to other states and I think um Keystone was an opportunity to do that I've I've launched the center for tribal and indigenous engagement at Keystone. Um, so quickly we started working on projects. Um. Around energy development tribes that are both extractive industries themselves but also looking at transitioning to renewables building solar farms. Um, wanting to develop their own. Um um, ah electric co-op be their own electric grid. Um, the whole process around hydropower. You know it didn't matter from from folks that were bringing more rentous around reducing their carbon footprint to transitioning from outdated extractive industry oil and gas type of stuff like what's next type of thing and not leaving tribes out of that conversation I also grew up. I mean meeting and and having huge respect for people like David Lester who was the longtime director for the councilable energy resource tribes cert was developed under the umbrella of the keystone policy center back in the late 70 s and then branched off independently in the 80 s but that was why Keystone was there. Was to bring these perspectives to the round the table and then they launch and they go whatever direction. That's great that brings more awareness to the issue. Um, so I knew it was a friendly crowd I knew what I wanted to do was going to be accepted at Keystone and I think what it also has done. Has now worked. Um so one of my clients as our project is with the city of boulder around tribal consultation. Um, and that's kind of interesting because it's come full circle for me I was a part of the conversation back when I very none started at at Cci and None in 2004? Um, and to now and seeing how they've better their relationship as a local government I think that's another chapter yet to be written but now conservation groups. Um, one of my clients is trust for public lands. Also the nature conservancy for Colorado um, and you have these conservation groups that are now. You know over the last couple years, especially after black lives matter and we're talking about diversity equity inclusion or jedi justice diversity equity and inclusion. Um, and what that means to indigenous communities particularly Bipac black conditionist people of color and I think the conversation now that we're starting to see is. Recognizing this history. You know, no matter where you are on land acknowledgements no matter where you are on on renaming mountains and mountain ranges or places particular to indigenous people. It's all involved in this and at the state you often have to. 33:26.64 archpodnet You're jumping into an issue sometimes at the eleventh hour when you're scrambling around trying to figure out a path forward. Um and it was kind of nice to take a breather to be able to actually collaborate with folks at the very beginning or to plant the seed and watch it grow. And be there to kind of help guide it as it moves forward. Um, so that's really what was was the whole idea I think at the end of the day though if it's with the state if it's with Keystone if it's wherever I go after that. Um, it's always going to be to change the public's perception. The american indian and what I mean by that is Colorado we've seen so many so many changes in awareness on indigenous issues just within the last three years things that I had advocated for my predecessors have advocated for um, those who've. Gone before and tribal leaders and state leaders have advocated for which is bringing more awareness to indigenous issues. So we're seeing the native american mascots um disappear we're so we're seeing um in-state tuition for. Members of historic tribes of Colorado 48 um that want to come to to higher education and in Colorado um, we're seeing more policies being created and avenues where the faces that I'm used to where I'm seeing more of them around the table. And that's I think what? what the goal is is is that you know that people don't think and automatically assume that either the utes or just American Indians in general are a vanishing race that were a forgotten people because I've had people tell me that straight to my face like oh. Feel so sorry for you I'm so I'm because of you know, not just the way you've been treated but then of course you know I saw the 60 minute special about Pine Ridge and I've seen this and that that's what's always out there. But I mean when the last Lone Ranger Tonto film was filmed. It was Johnny Depp who was not a nativeve american that's a reality now we're being more aware and of course there's been a group that's constantly been out there telling us that it is wrong for blackface. But when are we so also saying that's wrong for redface when are we you know and. Not just the activism not just you know what people tend to see or believe or or you know, but it it is about the clean water. It is about what the conversations happen across tribal lands like dakota access pipeline. There are 574 federally recognized tribes out there that are dealing with. 38:59.82 archpodnet Any one of these issues complex issues trying to continuously bring awareness to their history culture and moving forward to the future. That's where I want to see and I think that's what we're doing that keystone all right. It's amazing. How quickly it goes. We're already at our None Breakpoint ah but we will be right back here in a none.