00:00.40 archpodnet Welcome to heritage voices episode 67 I'm Jessica Yuquinto and I'm your host and today we're talking about makoon's consulting before we begin I'd like to honor and acknowledge that the lands I'm recording on today are part of the nooch or eat pupils treaty lands. Danta and the ancestral pueblo in Homeland today we have Anastasia Walhoed on the show Anastasia is an enrolled member of the redcli band of ojibway sorry I said the last ends really weird and then okay editor. Sorry. Um, okay today we have and then actually. Okay, thanks the editors know that this is like literally every episode. 00:44.57 Anastasia Walhovd You're doing great. 00:50.35 Anastasia Walhovd So. 00:53.29 archpodnet Today we have anastasia walhhoed on the show. Anastasia is an enrolled member of the Redclie band of ojibwe and descendant of the white earth band of ojibwe as well as an archeologist she received her degree in anthropology archaeology from Harvard College in 2013 and we'll start her. Master's degree at New Mexico state university in Fall twenty twenty two Anastasia runs Myoon's consulting Llc an archeological contracting company and she is the founder of the tribal archaeology network. So welcome to the show Anastasia. 01:28.97 Anastasia Walhovd Oh thank you Pushhu Mcgwitch Thanks for having me have it very excited to be here. 01:34.22 archpodnet Yes, so okay, we mentioned Anastasia a couple of episodes ago on the indigenous led crm business episode and we had been hoping to have her join us on that episode. 01:47.33 Anastasia Walhovd So. 01:51.97 archpodnet Um, like the boss lady that she is she had to be in the field. Um, so getting work done. Um, so we we have her here today instead. But. 01:54.87 Anastasia Walhovd A. 02:04.49 archpodnet For everyone that is interested in indigenous-led serum and heritage firms. Definitely go back and and listen to that episode and then come back to this one and hear more about 1 specific person's story after hearing about all of the different journeys. From that episode. So really excited to have you because like we talked about before we came on air the way that you've done things is a little different than than anyone else. So I think it'll be a really interesting story for our listeners who are interested in. The Crm route and not quite sure which direction they want to go in so excited to have you. 02:44.77 Anastasia Walhovd Yeah I think well thank you for having me I'm very excited to be here I think you know a lot of the people who are who are in the other episode are kind of a little bit later in their career a little bit more advanced and I'm definitely. Ah, not I'm definitely a newbie. Um, but I have done things a little bit differently and I think especially if you're like a student or you're just starting out I think it's really good to hear from someone who's maybe at this point where I'm at in my career um to. Kind of get a feel for it and you know see what other? Um, what other directions you can go So I'm I'm very excited and I feel very honored to to be on Podcast So Chief Mc Gwitch. Thanks Very much for having me on here. 03:24.79 archpodnet And. 03:31.85 archpodnet Yeah, and you know I don't think that you were the late most recently started company for that episode I think there was one of the companies has started more recently than you did. So you're not maybe not not as much of a newbie as you think. 03:47.10 Anastasia Walhovd Oh okay, it maybe not. 03:50.58 archpodnet Yeah, um, maybe not. But anyway to get us started first. What got you into this field. What what got you excited and interested in this kind of work. 04:04.88 Anastasia Walhovd So um, so when I was a kid you know Stewart always asked. You know he always asked kids what they wanted to do and they grew up and um, well I had a couple of things over the years but archeology was something that I always was really really interested and I always thought it was very very cool. And wanted to be an archeologist and um, you know my mom always had ah a subscription to national geographic and so I would read those from cover to cover I thought they were so cool and my mom really encouraged us to go to travel and and see new things and. Um I was just kind of really really interested in the concept of archaeology. So I think that's that's how I originally got into it was just as a kid and then as I got older and started applying for school I specifically only applied to schools that had archaeology programs. And then I remember getting into school and kind of like learning more about archaeology and like understanding like what it meant as an indigenous person to do archeology and that was like the first time that I was like oh no, what have I done I was like. No am I the colonizer and I was very um, you know it like an existential crisis and I think if you talk to a lot of indigenous archaeologists a lot of them go through that the crisis of like you know the history of archaeology is is very much so a history. Colonization um, and or and it's so closely tied with it and it's been used as a tool of colonization. But um and I think sort of I kind of had that little crisis and after college I was sort of dealt with it and I worked in other fields for. Um, quite a while actually I worked in natural resources for a little bit I worked in legal administration. You know I worked in like restaurants I fartended I did all of these odd bugs I'm ah I've been told that I'm the queen of side jobs to try and figure out and I just kept coming back to wanting to do archaeology and I finally kind of. You know, accepted like you know I'm gonna have to use this really as a tool to benefit indigenous communities and benefit defended communities and and just like find the way to do that and so that's kind of what's brought me back into it and and feeling good about. Being an archaeologist and being an indigenous person as well is trying to to essentially transform this field into being something that is can be a force for good. That's a long-winded answer. 06:42.97 archpodnet No no trust me I've there have been people that have answered and it's taken up the entire segment so that was actually pretty quick. Um, but um, yeah, you're good. You're good. Um. 06:51.84 Anastasia Walhovd Okay, so. Oh fantastic. 07:01.28 archpodnet so okay so um going back to college and your existential crisis about archeology. Um was there. Something in particular um that I I don't know that I want to ask it like that sorry editor I don't necessarily want to ask for like a specific example of like. This is you know what took you away from archeology. Um, let me see what do I want to ask you. So when you were in college and you were first learning about archeology and you're well not first learning about it. But you're learning about it for the first time in an academic setting and you're you know going through all of these. Things trying to figure out. Um you know what relationship? you'd want to have with archaeology and its colonial background and stuff like that did you have any exposure to indigenous archeology at that point. Um like had you heard. Ah, about any of that while you were in college or was that something that you only came to later. 08:33.26 Anastasia Walhovd Um, that was something that I learned more about while in college and and kind of probably after college more so too. Um, so I you know I remember asking around as a kid. About like who knew anything about archeology and like no one seemed to know anything about archeology. Um, it was kind of like you know it's like telling people that like you want to go to loon or something like that like who becomes an archaeologist isn't that something that's in the movies and um, but my parents ah my parents they worked for. 09:04.74 archpodnet E e. 09:11.57 Anastasia Walhovd Bureau Of Indian Affairs for a long time and and so they knew that archaeology was like a real a real thing with a real job but they did not that they themselves knew all that much about it. But they knew that you know the bia had archaeologists and they knew that they did some sort of survey work and so. I think a lot of people when you tell your parents you want to be an archaeologist. It's like telling them I want to be a starving poet you know or a starving artist and so um, but to my parents they were like oh no, no like you can do that. That's like a real thing people do we don't know that much about it. But we know enough. That like you can actually have a job and be paid to do it. Um, so they they were they were encouraging of me doing archeology. Um, but like you know, no one had no, we didn't know anything about indigenous archaeology nothing on lines and um, I'm not sure at what point my tribe. Got a tippo or a tribal historic preservation officer I'm not sure. Um, but at the time I don't know if my parents knew who it was or anything like that they didn't really think of in contact with them I was still really new I didn't even really know um that much about it and then when I was in my junior year. Of college I got a an internship we called it like the summer youth crew. Um, and I was the summer youth crew leader which meant I was in charge of the they had high school students that they were trying to introduce to careers and natural resources and I was in charge of of these students. There was. 2 or 3 of them at a time generally that I was in charge of and um, we would go and shadow all these different professionals in in natural resources. Um, and I'm not sure how I finagled myself into that job. You know and I think I something align the lines of like well natural resources and archeological resources and so. Are are closely tied you know and you often have to do them for our federal to to meet federal and state regulation and that sort of stuff and although no, why myself am not I think I'd be a good Very good fit for this position and that you ended up hiring me. Um. And it was actually during that time that we got to shadow. Um I remember I shadowed a gentleman who who was ah an archeologist for the for the bi and he himself was indigenous. Um and it was just kind of like it was a great time. Just. Walking around with them. We didn't do very much I think we only maybe spent an hour or 2 with that man but I was like oh wow I was like this is real. Um, that was like my first real experience I think with someone who is an indigenous archaeologist. Um, and then I got to meet the tippo as well as I was doing that that job and for a while I shared. 12:05.34 Anastasia Walhovd Or I was in the same building as him so we were very close offices very close desks and that sort of stuff and he was kind of telling me um, a little bit more about you know what he did and or what he does or yeah, what he Did. He's no longer with us and and you know what he thought of archeology itself and um carried some of. Ah, um, you know he had a lot of reservations actually about archaeology he was. He was quite suspicious of Archaeology. Um, and in like why he was a little bit hesitant a lot with working with archaeologists which makes a lot of sense so I was kind of I learned a little bit from him. Um. And that's when I was starting to get I think I got a little too cautious and I was like let's try some other things in my career. Um, but I kept coming back to archeology and I threw caution to the wind and said you know what I think I'm smart enough and I have enough skills having done. So. Um, all these other things that I think I can do this in a good way and I just got to keep talking to other people. Um elders and people in my community and checking in with myself to make sure that I feel but this work is being done in a good way and it's gonna be benefiting the community rather than harming it. So yeah. Gosh What was the original question. 13:20.50 archpodnet Oh um, so the original question but it's funny because you actually answered some other questions that I was going to ask next. So it's perfect I was just asking about when you were in ah college whether you. 13:29.88 Anastasia Walhovd Oh all, right. 13:39.29 archpodnet Had seen any examples of archaeology done in a way that you would want to do it. Obviously you saw a lot of examples in the history of what you wouldn't want to do in archeology? Um, but just like what was that um, something that you were exposed to at that point or was that more of. 13:48.78 Anastasia Walhovd Yeah. 13:57.80 archpodnet A later finding examples on your own sort of a situation. 14:01.19 Anastasia Walhovd That yeah I think that's was more of a later finding I think I and I still think that I'm learning a lot about what I think I want it to look like too. You know I'm I'm always learning this. Its like okay we want to do this. we want to you know add this into my practice. okay we want to add this into the practice so I feel like it's always it's always evolving it's not like I have this There's like a concrete stone and I chisel in the directions on like how to be the best indigenous archaeologyies that doesn't exist I think the best the best way to be I think being an indigenous archaeologist is is recognize that this is very this is very sort of. Novel concept in a lot of ways and and in the the field you know a lot of people like the idea of indigenous archaeology but they don't know what it means and to me I feel like indigenous archeology is such ah, an intimate thing I think for for like not just an individual person. But also like within a tribe and you know it's you know one tippo for 1 the senate community might might see things a little bit differently and I think it's all about incorporating or yeah, so one Tippo might see a little bit differently than another tippo and I think a lot of it is about. Um, respecting and working with and listening to specifically the communities you're going to be most directly impacting with your work or that are like most directly interested or related to whatever it is the site or whatever it is the work that you're doing. And working with them. You know there's no perfect formula of like yes and this will be the perfect project in which you include native voices like that doesn't really exist. It's all about like learning to get a lot of feedback from people and finding the best way to incorporate all of it in. Yeah, being flexible. 16:00.48 archpodnet Um, yeah, um. 16:01.49 Anastasia Walhovd I But yeah so to go back? Yeah so I'm still I guess I'm the answer is I'm still learning. 16:11.51 archpodnet Aren't we all I mean I think yeah if you're if you're not then that's when you get in trouble right. 16:13.00 Anastasia Walhovd Yeah. Exactly. 16:20.78 archpodnet So okay so you were learning more Well I guess I should say you stepped away for a little while and you were doing the other things that you mentioned um and then and and you know it sounds like doing some of this. 16:34.61 Anastasia Walhovd So. 16:40.59 archpodnet Research on your own looking into to options or ways of doing it or thinking about it. Um, what did what did the journey back look like. 16:52.11 Anastasia Walhovd And the journey back um in let's see ah in 2018 I was I was working in legal administration and I had originally gotten into legal administration because I was thinking oh maybe I want to be a lawyer and um. 16:53.52 archpodnet To archeology goodness. 17:10.74 Anastasia Walhovd Very quickly learned I did not want to be a lawyer but I was doing that for a little bit just to kind to half steady income and etc and I was just very very unhappy with it. You know I'm I'm now that I've spent a lot of time playing in the dirt I know that I'm supposed to go like. Play in the dirt for part of the year it's supposed to be out in the sun and that sort of stuff. So I um I ended up I started volunteering for the minnesota historical society and I I got a little message from their. 17:30.84 archpodnet 6 17:48.62 Anastasia Walhovd Volunteer coordinator and she said you know I read over your resume and I see you have a degree in archaeology. She says we have this volunteer position and we don't normally advertise it because it's generally full. She says but there is an opening. We just haven't advertised it would you be interested in helping to catalog artifacts and I say. Oh yeah, sure. So that's how I I started. Um I guess back into it was I was cataloging artifacts for the minnesota historical society with quite a number of people who seems like they had been doing it for a long time. Um, and there that's where I met Pat Emerson and Pat Emerson was the the archeologist for the minnesota historical society um and kind of like a ah giant in Minnesota Archeology and she was very encouraging for me to um, learn more and get more experience and at that point I had had. Very very little experience doing archaeology in my own my own homeland almost all my archaeology had experience had been. You know like my field school and like out east of Massachusetts and in Peru and I hadn't done anything in Minnesota or Wisconsin um, and so she was. She was very helpful and very encouraging for me as I was trying to get back into this so I got invited to the they have archeology month month excuse me um, archeology month hosted by the minnesota historical society in the month of September and they do a number of different events there and they had this event. It was like a number of different archaeologists from around the state and I think you could like you know, ah Flynn Air Lal and you know you could learn about underwater archeology and. Soda and I think there was like a couple of cool collections that they put out on display and you know that was out at fort sailing and I went to that and I was having a conversation with so the underwater archeologists there. The couple that runs a a nonprofit under roqueology business in Minnesota and I had a long conversation with them and I was like oh I'd love to volunteer for you guys I was like I'd love to put on some scuba gear and like do some of this work. Um, and that ended up being logistically a little challenging to do but they they put me in touch. Um, with ah Jeremy Nino of nino cultural consultant and Jeremy Nino I later learned was actually the one running the add atle stand I just hadn't met him. Um, but ah is he um. 20:32.86 archpodnet Ah. 20:40.21 Anastasia Walhovd I reached out to him and I said you know I'm I'm actually looking to to do work in this field not just volunteer I had been volunteering for local public I think at that point and um, he said ah he said you know I've been looking for archeological texts. He's like I don't actually have any employees because I don't know at least like i. Don't have enough work to keep him year-round. That's her stuff. he's like I only really know how to he's like I just have contract for so it's like all he was able to do at that point with the amount of work he had was he had contractors. Um, and you know he said he apparently he must have listened in on my conversation with the underly. So I assume he must have thought I was very intelligent but we got know each other a little more and um and he said you know I I would love to have you on for the season but you just have to start your own lllc and but to me that was like oh you know this kind of like this sounds too good to be true or. You know that's like a big commitment too I think to to think of like I'm going to start my own business like don't shouldn't I be an employee first and like work my way up and um, but that's what I ended up doing I decided I had asked around to a couple other archaeologists. Um, and they had been doing that for quite a while and they were making. You know good money doing it and they liked their freedom and they it was really working well for them and I decided you know why the heck not so I started up makoon's consulting and moons is an ojibwe word that means bear cub. Um. And because I do feel a little bit like a baby beer cub in archaeology I hope someday to be Muckwa consulting which is there not just their consulting but we're starting with mcoo. Um, maybe once I finished my master's degree I'll switch to muckbook consulting. But um, so yeah I started up. Consulting and I started doing work and that was that was a big game changer for me because I got an enormous amount of experience doing a lot of different things very shortly I'm sorry did I did I cut you off I thought you were about to ask something. 22:43.63 archpodnet Cool. Well I was okay so obviously editors cut this part but all right? So we are already at our first break. But obviously I want to hear more about all of that when we come back. 22:54.58 Anastasia Walhovd So. 23:02.44 archpodnet Um, so we'll be right back.