00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the final segment of episode 2 63 the Sierra Archeology Podcast and I got a couple of myths here that are related to advanced degrees typically a master's degree because I I would say I would say most people don't go on to ph d primarily because you don't need it. That doesn't mean you can't get a ph d and b inerm. There's quite a few people with ph ds in serum but a lot of people will stop at the at the master's level. So I'll just talk about that real quick. First off you know a big one is. You can't get married and or have a family in cm without having a master's degree and really what I mean by that is you can't have a family or get married or whatever have a partner without having some sort of permanent job where you're you know, 9 to 5 Monday through Friday because typically in ah maybe this is another myth. That's what a master's degree gets you right ah well I had a master's degree I never have to do field work again right? I'm going to sit at a desk and and have a normal job I mean that's kind of true sometimes and it's probably more true than it is not You're you're going to spend more time to desk probably but you're more likely also going to go in the field and. But you can have a family heather is a good example of that Doug's a good example of that I'm a good example that I have kids but I met my wife in in Crm and we made it work and ah, there's quite a ah I wish bill was on this show. You know Bill has Bill has lots of kids and a wife and has been successful in his corm career. 01:21.45 Heather What. 01:25.87 archpodnet And is now a professor at Berkeley so I think if you and Andrew too. Yeah I think if you want to make it work. You can make it work. It just requires some flexibility and some logistics for sure. You have to have good. 01:26.50 Heather Answer 2 10 01:30.34 Andrew Right. 01:39.30 archpodnet Management of your time your quote work life balance and things like that and you you might have to hunt around for the for the right position as well. But I think it can be done for sure so that what? ah. 01:47.92 Doug Meant Chris that just sound like a humble brag by you the whole time being like yeah so you guys have kids you have kids I don't have kids but you know suckers. 01:56.89 archpodnet Ah I you know, ah exactly exactly so I kind of feel that way. Sometimes we honest with it's so freeing I know not disparaging children but you know I live in an rv and we travel around the country and that again you can do that with kids too. There's plenty of people that we know that live full time in some sort of rig. People that do it in like a small bumper po trailer with like two kids I don't know how they do that but they make it work and it's ah and they're happy. They're happy doing it. So if they can do it if the rv and community can do it I feel like the cm community can do it and and a lot of people have done that successfully so that's that's 1 thing. Um. I want to get a few of these others ones because this one's going to probably get some conversation too is this is such a common one that I feel like field technicians think when they're when they have a crew chief or a project manager or somebody that does have a master's degree or maybe they don't even have a master's degree. They're just in a leadership position over them. And people with master degrees or people in leadership positions. This is the myth should know more than me now while that's probably kind of true because they're probably in that position because they either Abe and doing. You know something either at that company longer or maybe they haven't I mean there's plenty of field technicians who don't want to lead that have been doing this for 20 years and there's somebody who's been doing this for 5 years That's now a crew chief right? You're you're never going to know more than that field tech that's been doing this for 20 years you're just not. You might have a bigger piece of the. 03:23.49 archpodnet The overall picture because you're in that position and you've been told more about that particular project or whatever you're doing but the simple fact is from a skills standpoint you don't necessarily have to know more than everybody who's working for you. You just have to be able to manage them and their skills and get the project done or your aspect of the project. You know. On time and under budget is the ah is the hope. But that's it, you just have to be a good manager. Go ahead Heather I know you got a lot to say on this. 03:48.46 Heather Um, um, yeah, well I'm going to agree and disagree with you I sound like Doug. Um, so I totally agree with you that um. 03:55.88 archpodnet Awesome! Awesome! ah. 04:01.25 Heather You know there's like we were talking about. There's different skill sets that people have and just because somebody has thirty years experience doesn't mean that they're good manager of people and so there's different roles have different um requirements for you know, abilities and and so yes. 04:09.33 archpodnet Right. 04:18.97 Heather There's some things you're not going to know. But here's another myth that goes ah kind of along with this. You could have somebody who's been working in the field for 30 years and who probably can has a better idea of maybe what they're going to find across the other you know that next hill or whatever but they don't know anything about a research design. 04:34.90 archpodnet Ah. 04:37.83 Heather They don't know how to make a research design. They don't know how to work put together a work plan. These are not managerial. These are they may not know how to do certain types of analyses. You can have people that are coming straight out of college that have you know, learned certain things that are very valuable and so this concept that. Oh I've been in the field for 30 years and this you know younger person with a graduate degree or not even a younger person but somebody I haven't seen before with a graduate degree. They don't know anything because they don't know how to hold a compass and and walk a straight transect. They're not they don't know anything and I know more than they do. That's not true. 05:11.43 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:15.66 Heather Everybody has their role and we need to respect each other this concept where we're always like comparing and I'm a better archeologist. You know it's our field is so cannibalistic we're we're so nasty to each other you know instead of really respecting where that person. 05:28.46 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:34.70 Heather What their skill set is and what they bring to the table and I bring a different kind of skill set to the table is that of comparing ourselves to each other because we're insecure people is you know there's just it's it's not conducive to a good working team and so. 05:44.39 archpodnet Um. 05:49.49 Heather When you have people that come in and they do have a graduate degree like have an open mind because just because they don't maybe dig a good hole doesn't mean that they don't have all this analysis and and understanding. Um that also brings something valuable to the project. So anyway that that. 06:06.94 archpodnet Well and along the lines with what you were saying earlier with ah with what was it Linda who was on the show who works with you. You know another friend of mine who I'll leave him anonymous because I didn't ask him if I could use his name but he's he. 06:11.74 Heather You know friend of mine. 06:21.39 archpodnet Was asking him about this when this topic came up and and he sent a couple of things over and one of them just mentioning that a friend of his has no master's degree just experience a lot of it was hired as an assistant pm. So project manager um and working mostly remote at a very good salary is what he said. So. 06:35.91 Heather So you know. 06:39.31 archpodnet You know going along those lines you know experience can get you somewhere and a lot you know when I was saying don't you know the person who has the master's degree over the top of you that might be a ah project Manager Field director even Crewchi or something like that you know should know more than you that also goes kind of the other direction. You don't have to I guess have that sort of degree in order to be in those positions and you shouldn't be seen as as less than because of that as well, right? You should just be. You know, judged on your merits. Yeah yeah. 07:02.19 Heather Are. 07:08.12 Heather Just be respectful of each other have an open mind go into the field and say instead of saying I am the most experienced here or I don't know anything because everybody else is more just walk in and say okay, what can I bring to the table here. How can I help not. 07:27.94 archpodnet It is. It is tough though because because there's a heavy amount of competition. Especially regionally right if somebody wants to somebody wants to get that coveted permanent position or something like that or even be called back for the next project at a minimum right? they. 07:28.12 Heather You know compare. Yeah, it just we need to be a little healthier in the way we walk in. Um, yeah. 07:45.60 archpodnet I Mean there's a lot of competition and you've got to try to stand out and some people just don't do it in a tactful way. You know what I mean and and I don't think they're realizing. Yeah. 07:49.98 Heather Stand out with yours. Yeah, just focus on and we're probably going on another tangent here but just just focus on being the best archaeologist you can be and that will settle its stuff out. You know people things are going to happen people are going to get positions that you should have gotten that's life. It happens just. 08:04.20 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah for sure. 08:09.50 Heather Day on that narrow road or that that road of you know doing the best that you can personally and. 08:12.53 archpodnet Right? Doug. 08:17.90 Doug Or man I'm ah um, a totally like flip us at a different direction right now. Um I'm go just go to throw out another myth out there that um archaeholics that like archeologists are heavy drinkers and this is not to say that. 08:28.94 archpodnet Oh yeah. 08:30.96 Heather Oh. 08:35.40 Doug There are not some heavy drinkers that are archaeologists or archaeologists that are hoard drinkers. However, you want to phrase that um, but like this idea that like archaeologists drink more than the average person or that like you you need to be able to drink heavily to be an archaeologist. Complete utter myth. Um, we did a survey like well ouch now it's like three years ago but like archeologists exactly average with reporting as anyone else. Um and little caveat here like reporting is. 09:10.93 archpodnet Um. 09:13.75 Doug Everyone always underreports I mean like the famous garbage project in Arizona shows that like what people drink and what they actually drink don't quite line up. But for the most part archaeologists report the same amount of drinking as pretty much the entire rest of the population. Um, and there's this idea that like. 09:14.89 archpodnet Sure. 09:20.82 archpodnet Um, Brett. 09:33.55 Doug Archeology has a heavy drinking culture. But um, every example I've ever heard is like if you were to like pull yourself out look on the outside. It's like a scientist and like be looking at like the data and like the stuff you'd be like yeah, that's a bias example that's a bias example that's a bias example. 09:50.99 archpodnet Ah. 09:52.95 Doug Heavily biased. That's not actually like anything accurate. It'll be like oh you know? Um, so and so you know at this conference we we drank this? Ah, this bar they they had to close down all the taps we we we drank them out and you're like so let me tell. You you went there for a conference 400 archeologists on a Tuesday in February when um, they weren't expecting 400 people to show up on a Tuesday in February and you happened to clear out a bar I'm like yeah guys like that was 100% expected to happen. 10:23.67 archpodnet It's not hard. Ah. 10:26.56 Doug That's just like that's just like physics. It's like numbers and stuff that's not like proof that archaeologists are heavy drinkers. It's just um, how those things go So I'm a thrower out there that like everything I've seen and actually the hard data says that like archaeologistologists don't drink anymore than anyone else. 10:31.67 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:46.15 Doug Um, which I'm pretty sure like cuts people pretty deep like that's ah that's a hardcore like identity thing with archeologists is like we must be heavy drinkers and you must be able to drink um and actually not true at all people that might. 10:57.60 archpodnet Well I think where that I think where that might come from is the situational times when when that might actually be. It's not true. It's it's situational like you know your your average person may drink more at a wedding reception. For example, you know everybody you know, but that's a situational thing but. 11:13.24 Heather Ah. 11:15.80 archpodnet Archaeologists just have a lot more of those situations where you might be doing that in certain circumstances like a conference you're you're at a conference you you haven't seen a bunch of people that you see maybe once a year or just at conferences and maybe you're going to live it up. You know one night at a bar and that's going to be it right? But that's going to be what. A lot of people have as an impression of you because that's literally the only time of the year they see you and every time they see you, you're you know you're drinking heavily at a conference. But maybe that's only 4 times a year that you drink heavily and then the other one is that I've definitely seen anecdotally is on long field projects where not even long ones. But. You know, especially in the beginning when people just get to know each other there's often you know the tailgate have a few beers at the end of the workday and the put in the hotel parking lot and there's usually a few people and and I would say it's often a lot of the younger ones or the ones that are newer in the field younger in that respect that just. Have a hard time treating this as a real job and not seeing the fact that you're and every for every project is a field school. You know what? I mean when when you're first starting out every project seems like a field school you meet new people. You're in a different area. You're in a different location and you don't treat it like a day-to- day thing and you might just have a drink every day. Not. Even to excess but you might drink every single day you know with everybody else back in the tailgate of the truck in the parking lot right? And that's that could be perceived as heavy drinking. But I think it's situational and people people get out of that so I don't know Andrew. 12:45.42 Andrew Yeah, I'm glad that the data says that and I am super sick of the sort of drinking culture of like dude we drink so much we do. We are so badass because we drink you know? um. 12:46.49 Doug The data. Yeah. 12:59.21 Andrew And that always sort of turned me off myself personally I drink a little bit but I'm very very conservative drinker but also in my experience I don't know I've seen a lot of drink and over like a very long time. So again I'm glad the data says that but man my personal experience says something else. 13:06.20 archpodnet Um. 13:15.91 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, I hear you. 13:19.33 Doug But you're you're probably like if you get yeah, if you got a different job and you probably were out there I think Chris got hit it on exactly was situational is like it is that um and you will see like there are some heavy drinkers. But there's like heavy drinkers. 13:26.72 Andrew Yeah. 13:35.94 Andrew Bright. 13:36.00 Heather A. 13:36.25 archpodnet Um, yeah. 13:36.84 Doug Everywhere I think what we gets left out is like so people be like and Chris is perfect with the conference where they're like oh you know you only see someone every couple of you know once or twice a year and it's always at like a reception at ah, um, a conference and stuff. It's always drinking and so you always associate that with that but like having run a lot. 13:53.40 Andrew Yeah. 13:56.67 Doug Ah, conferences or been in them involved in the running of a lot of conferences. You actually like people remember that because they go to the reception and there's usually booze but actually a significant amount of people don't actually go to those receptions and don't drink. 13:59.11 Andrew M. 14:13.80 Andrew Right? right. 14:16.50 Doug Like but you you never see that because it's not you're not that's that's how you're not socializing but like yeah I mean like with a conference I ran um like 40% of the people did not go to the the drinks. Um, and I've seen it other way. Other places as well where I've I have access to the numbers and it'll be like yeah 200 people are at this conference and actually maybe like one hundred or one hundred and twenty actually show up to the reception to drink. Um, and so like when you're there. Of course everyone's drinking but like a lot of people you know, just don't drink or. 14:42.93 Andrew Bright. 14:52.26 Doug Don't want to drink that time or you know there's There's a lot of stuff that just people don't see because of the situation. 14:55.89 Andrew Yeah I think Chris's word of situational you know I think that that is true because it's like if you've been living in a hammock for two weeks in the middle of the jungle when you come into town. Yeah, you're going to have a drink you know and I I guess I've seen a lot of that. 15:10.72 archpodnet Right? right? and everybody in that town thinks every time this person comes into town. They drink to excess right? But it's like once every two weeks ah yeah all right? Well we only have a couple of minutes left I don't know if we have enough for this because I've got at least 1 or 2 more. 15:14.63 Andrew Right? That is exactly right. 15:14.94 Heather And. 15:26.38 archpodnet Um, maybe we can just go around without too much discussion and just just say some of these myths and have our audience think about it maybe in post and and perhaps these can be fodder for other things. So I'll kick it off real quick and then I'll throw it around the room. A master's degree will make you a leader That's a common myth right? Leadership skills make you a leader leadership training makes you a leader. 15:33.92 Andrew Sure. 15:42.56 Heather Ah. 15:46.17 archpodnet Not necessarily having a master's degree just makes you a leader or being a cruchi for that matter it just it just doesn't do it. Um, heather do you got 1 15:54.18 Heather Yep, Um, that boiler plate specifically background context do not need to be updated. They should be regularly updated and and yes and it and it should be up I see this a lot in peer reviews. 16:02.61 archpodnet Nice, Yeah, it's called Boilerplate but you have to look at it. Ah. 16:12.12 Heather People do not update their background Contexts either to you know New Theories New kind of you know, new new discoveries and then also customizing the backend of it so you have you know your typical the further along in a background context. You get the more customized It should be. 16:19.75 archpodnet Um. 16:30.24 archpodnet Um, yeah. 16:31.96 Heather So um, as you get down to the end of the background context. It should be more so specific to your project area and then those things really do need to be more customized based on your project. 16:42.69 archpodnet All right quick ones Ander Doug 16:47.12 Andrew Yeah I got one um high technology is needed to do good archeology. 16:51.70 archpodnet There you go Doug. 16:51.19 Heather Good one. 16:56.87 Doug Um, that the public is only interested in buried Treasure I Know we get a lot of questions like have you found any gold ever or anything like that. Ah, but I think that's more of a just a not quite understanding what we do So You ask a question like that like. Have you found a titus or have you found gold stuff like that. But honestly I I think we don't give the public enough credit on that they'd be interested in things that are not related to gold Slash dinosaurs. Um lost So super civilizations of whatever. Ah know a you has a whole a whole um ah, whole podcast that all all those ah stuff that like we think that people are just interested in but um are not true I Think that's a myth. 17:36.38 Andrew He. 17:41.30 archpodnet Yeah, all right, all right? Well I'll end with one last one a fun one and that's every archeologist got into this because of Indiana Jones and that's not true and you know what weird thing is I've heard 2 examples on different 2 different shows in the last two weeks 17:41.67 Andrew Yeah. 17:52.39 Heather And. 18:00.93 archpodnet On the Apn one was a life and ruins podcast and I can't remember what the other one was but either way the 2 examples were 2 people two separate people got into archeology because of the mummy of all things the movie the mummy which I which. 18:14.94 Doug It was a good movie. 18:16.17 Andrew Ah, right? It's generational. Yeah. 18:16.51 Heather Mean is a good movie. Yeah. 18:18.10 archpodnet But that's just generational. Yeah, exactly exactly although Indiana Jones 5 is coming out in July and Steven Spielberg says it's great. It's first one he hasn't directed so we'll see we'll see because he did direct 4 but you know we'll go from there all right. 18:28.90 Andrew Yeah, yeah. 18:30.12 Doug Oh god. 18:33.65 archpodnet This has been a great episode if you're listening to this. What myths do you have that we didn't cover. You know, leave those in you know, comments on the websites don't leave them in a review but leave us a review that would be great wherever you're listening to this Spotify Apple podcasts but you know wherever you see this go ahead and and tell us the myths that we didn't cover that you've commonly heard with that. We'll see you guys next week all right keeping it rolling for the outro this is a good episode Doug. 19:00.15 Doug Goodbye yes that that right there let's sigh. That's what I live for oh this will keep me going for months Chris for months cat how you just can't just get that sigh right? There can just put that like out of the loop for me. 19:00.73 archpodnet Ah, all right? ah. 19:01.29 Heather Yep. 19:06.16 Andrew Um, yeah, ah ah, ah. 19:12.86 archpodnet All right? We'll see in the I will oh I God for everyone else. We'll see in the field Goodbye Maybe say the whole thing. Ah. 19:18.70 Doug Hi Yeah, that's that's that's what I live for man. That's what I live for with this. 19:25.53 Heather Thanks for listening. 19:27.36 Andrew See you guys next time.