00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Bill in California and also Andrew in California and I'm finally back in the United States I'm in Southern Arizona we're headed to The Grand Canyon today for the next week and 00:05.86 Bill White Um, Happy easter. 00:07.65 Andrew Has going everybody. 00:15.37 Bill White Um, wait which what part of Arizona are you in? ah. 00:20.20 archpodnet I'm in Hila Bend right now just for the night because we just we just came across and then we're going up to The Grand Canyon this week and then we're going down for another rving event just past Tucson in sonota. It's called Sonoyta yeah, so down in wine country apparently which I'm a little dubious about Arizona wine country. But. 00:31.75 Bill White Um, yeah, whilst who you you should definitely be dubious about the wine country situation there but I would say that. 00:37.72 archpodnet See. 00:44.36 Bill White Now is is an amazing time to go to sonoda because all the migratory birds are going to be coming through and so like now it's going to be bird sighting Paradise That's a major corridor and you're going to be in a nice place where there's you know, a lot of flowers and it's probably going to be sunny and nice and you know you'll be able to do all your birdwating that you that I know you love. 00:49.98 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 00:58.58 archpodnet Ah. 01:01.92 archpodnet Oh yeah, yeah, all the time. Yeah I hardly get any work done. Yeah so all right. 01:03.97 Bill White To do well down there. You're going to be like oh my God like you're a dog or whatever looking from side to side like oh my God There's a bird. There's a bird. 01:12.44 archpodnet Ah, oh I know oh man, all right? Well, we've got a topic today and it's bill's turn for a topic so bill I'll just have you explain what we're talking about. 01:22.95 Bill White Sure sure so folks who have been paying attention. Well if you're in a university you probably already have been hearing all about this but folks who've been paying attention to these new Ai developments ah might be noticing that. 01:28.25 archpodnet Um. 01:36.55 Bill White Um, there's a lot of conversation about Ai creating articles and and creating different writing and stuff and so as someone who's working at a university of course our you know first few weeks of ah meetings were consumed with ah guidance on how to handle things like chat Gpt and these other ai text. 01:46.95 archpodnet Are. 01:54.14 archpodnet Yep. 01:55.41 Bill White Ah, conglomeration you know platforms like how do we handle that as an essay do we run it through these different other kinds of protocols to check and see whether it's been done by chat gbt or like do we really care. Is it really writing if you've had Ai help you build it. So folks who are not aware I mean. I don't know all of the different coding stuff in the backend. But I guess we've gotten to a point where you can enter in different prompts and parameters into things like chat gbt which is ah um, online like text generator software and it'll scrape the internet and it can conjure up something that. Really mimics. Ah, you know pretty decent entry level ah archeology or humanities essay right? So you know, ah, if if your instructor gives you this open prompt about you know, give me a thing that connects you know, um. 02:40.13 archpodnet Um. 02:47.18 Bill White Structuralism with these different kind of ah theorists and anthropologyies' history or whatever you can type those prompts in there and it'll generate something with a thousand words or however, many hundred words that it's got from just stuff from the internet right? So for something like a. 02:50.55 archpodnet Yeah. Yeah, right? you know I'm just gonna say when when I saw you write this topic up. I. 03:04.44 Bill White Ah, blow, go ahead, Go ahead. 03:10.00 archpodnet Was actually writing these show notes for and posting the last episode of theiera mark podcast where we had on Andrew's former student and I was like I went into chat beach gp because I've been hearing a lot about it and 1 of my coworkers is just telling me she was using it to help write video scripts for the software that we that we both work with. and and I went over there and I said and I said write up podcast show notes ah something I said something about um, write up podcast show notes regarding a former student. Ah, former students field school experience in Scotland and I tell you what I almost used the paragraph that that thing put together because it was way better than anything I could have come up with it wasn't quite right because it it sort of did it as a conversation and not as a descriptive paragraph so you know I didn't end up keeping it but it was eerie. 03:45.14 Bill White Yeah, yeah, yeah. 03:57.81 Bill White Yeah, yeah I mean yes, and so the thing Yeah, you're exactly right? I mean you give it the parameters you tell it what you'd like it to create and it just creates a pretty decent. You know the the grammar is decent. The the content is pretty good and. 03:58.62 archpodnet How good it was. It was really crazy. 04:16.12 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:16.34 Bill White it's it's passable right and so you know the biggest concern in academia is our students going to be able to crank out essays and hand them in and like the reality is seriously if you're an overworked instructor and you're giving folks quite generic. Um ah writing prompts with you know. A wide universe of responses. Yeah, chat Gpt can totally game your thing and it can it can make it can make someone write out something like you know, archaeological sites associated with George Washington and their connection to constitutionalism. It can make a pretty good essay if that's the the level of what you're doing right? so. So there is a concern there and you know I I'm like on the fence about it right? because just like you said it created a pretty good show notes thing and if I had like a you know english 100 assignment and someone cranked one out like you know. 04:53.20 archpodnet Um. 05:07.77 Bill White Ah, seriously my assignment is actually not that difficult if a machine can you know, easily create it. But if we're here in 2023 and people can get passable essays off the internet through a software in 2043 the thing is going to be way better. 05:11.70 archpodnet Right. 05:22.82 archpodnet Right? Oh yeah, now here's a question for you I want to know how these conversations are going at the university maybe behind you know, closed doors and with a couple of beers. Not formal conversations because what I want to know is how. How do you think you guys are going to pivot on this and what I mean by that is nobody takes typing classes anymore right? like when computers were were coming into every um, every every house you know kids were starting to take typing classes where back in the you know the early 80 s the 70 s and sixty s the fifty s it was typically women who were going to be secretaries that were taking typing classes right. 05:43.17 Bill White Um, yeah. 05:56.54 Bill White Yeah. 05:58.62 archpodnet People who are typing up stuff in those big typing farms. They were the only ones doing that and then then when computers started becoming more ubiquitous I remember using Mavis Beacon teachers typing back in the 80 s yeah. 06:06.16 Bill White Yeah, exactly I took typing in middle school. Yeah. 06:11.24 archpodnet Exactly nobody takes typing anymore because kids already know how to type or they can just do it with their thumbs by the time they get to school and nobody cares as long as you can do the output. So oh well there you go Ah sure. 06:17.11 Bill White Well now they take it in like third grade though Chris like they've just accelerated it. Yeah, like that's something to get like a third grader because they're doing all their work on their laptop their chromebook anyway, so yeah, they take typing when they're like you know 7 06:29.20 archpodnet Yeah, but that's my point we've kind of pivoted that way a little bit to just understanding that. Okay, this is a given you need to know how to do this. It's not optional anymore and and people are going to figure it out right? It's just it's just one of those things. Well I mean back before chat Gpt and Ai and things like that. 06:40.58 Bill White Um, yeah. 06:47.52 archpodnet It was also okay for professors to just kind of I don't want to say phone it in but to say hey write up an essay like this which tests writing skills test your critical thinking skills test your researching skills test all those sorts of things. But maybe we should pivot back to just taking tests in class. You know what? I mean at the college level. 07:01.77 Bill White Well I mean I I think that well so I have a couple things to say about all this because I don't I don't know about the like I'm not going to my department is is ah on the fence right. 07:05.50 archpodnet Because that's real. 07:16.62 Bill White To me I'm not on the fence I'm like okay so how can I just integrate chat gbt into my class right? Like how can I get it in there because if if someone's going to if they're going to make some kind of rule that says anyone who uses any kind of ah word processing Software is a villain. 07:20.40 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 07:32.55 Bill White Then all the people who are using Grammarly all the other people who are using other stuff to screen through their writing that they're creating is you know they're going to get in trouble and then second of all like the temptation is just so great that. 07:38.70 archpodnet Um. 07:47.34 Bill White I mean it's just really hard when you've got all these classes people are asking you to write all these essays and stuff like that I can absolutely see how you know there would be a lot of folks who just they want to you know phone it in they want to get something created and and get it going and then the third thing is ah as we're going to talk about this is going to be what they're going to do. 07:58.27 archpodnet Yeah. 08:06.32 Bill White If you're doing coding. It's crazy for you to be doing it all by hand when a software can create like 90% of it and you just got to tweak it and I guarantee you most employers are trying to figure out how can they either use Chad gpt or make something similar use the code from that to work in their in their company right? and and what I envision is. Companies that have been around a long time that have a bunch of ah digital files that have reports can totally put all those things in there and make a chat gpt like code and then have it scrape and create the the boilerplate for every project and so if you're a company and you've already like we're already doing all this stuff on computers. 08:38.64 archpodnet Yeah. 08:44.39 Bill White They've been doing it for thirty something years on computers. They've got digital files of all the text that this company has written. It's all already in their thing. It's not very hard for them to take some form of software to create something that will scrape and make the boilerplate and um, you know 80% of what you need for your. Your report. 09:01.88 archpodnet Right? Yeah I totally agree I want to talk more about Crm reports and maybe writing articles and stuff in the next segment but let's stick to college and and grad school and things like that because that's where this all starts all these students that are coming in that are. You know more tech savvy than you know people in the past because that's how it works you know the the younger generation is always more tech savvy and they're going to be the ones that are exploiting this and then therefore using that in their crm careers or their academic careers moving forward. So um. 09:29.90 Bill White Yeah, totally. 09:31.66 Andrew Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll just just talk for a minute just because the whole college thing. Um I agree with you Chris in terms of. 09:33.70 archpodnet Andrew and Doug I don't know which one you had your hand up first. So who wants to go sounds like Andrew. 09:43.60 Andrew Having tests and that kind of stuff on ground again as I think everyone here knows I just hate all online teaching I think it's just awful I think it's just like has nothing to do with reality and nobody learns Jack um, so in terms of. 09:58.15 archpodnet Um. 09:58.66 Andrew Bringing the tests and and even if you have to write like an essay in class like that's that's cool and and I give people a break in terms of grammar and stuff if you're under the gun you know taking a test live. Um, but on the flip side the chat YouG p thing. 10:02.75 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:14.68 Andrew It does bum me out because I I do ultimately want my students to learn how to write you know what? I mean it's not so much about like oh my God you forgot your fourth reference but you need to know those nuts and bolts of writing So I I don't like having chat gpt in. 10:17.71 archpodnet Sure. 10:26.54 archpodnet Yes, oh. 10:31.20 Andrew In the university system I get for later I get the stuff that we'll talk about later but I don't like having it um in there and I will say I think I've gotten some stuff that was done by Chet Gp and Chris you're right about how good it is overall but I will add like. 10:37.41 archpodnet The. 10:49.70 Andrew If it's writing something that you really know about like oh the ancient maya sinotes every time I get one of those it feels like I'm drinking diet Coke meaning there's an after tastes where I'm like wait This is wait. What is this and and it just it feels odd. 10:56.74 Bill White I yeah. 11:00.16 archpodnet Um. 11:03.35 archpodnet Yeah. 11:04.52 Bill White Yeah, so. 11:08.44 Andrew I think Bill's right that oh 20 years from now they're going to get rid of the afterta dude. But for now yeah, you know for now I I don't like it. 11:12.17 archpodnet Well yeah, and and here's the thing I was going with with the typing earlier and then we'll get to Doug's comment you know when I was mentioning. We don't necessarily you know teach typing in the way that we did before because it's more expected and. 11:23.21 Andrew Um. 11:30.44 archpodnet Along the same lines of you know one of the things we've always talked about when everybody ever says. Oh you know we've had the the episode of you ander just a few months ago that was what should I be teaching my kids and and and Heather and everybody always says oh they need better writing skills. They need better. You know and they need to be able to write need to be able to write a to be able to write. But I'm like do they now. 11:45.65 Andrew Um. 11:49.15 Andrew A. 11:50.00 archpodnet Right? They need to be able to put better inputs into the Ai and and tell it how to write better because ultimately it's going to be quicker and and that's what's going to be the driving factor in CRM anyway 11:54.39 Bill White Um, all. 11:58.77 Bill White Yeah, but in least these 20 years next twenty years or so they're still going to need to know how to write and they're still going to need all to know all the rules of grammar and logic and all that other stuff to even get the machine to crank it out I do think they're going to. They're going to need to have I command of technical language. 12:07.94 archpodnet I Just don't know the machine's going to know that. 12:09.46 Andrew Yeah i. But I think I yeah and I think Bill's totally right too about the logic aspect that like how it flows like how a human will understand it. That's the I think that's the aftertaste part. 12:16.50 Bill White To make sure that it even works right to get rid of that aftertaste like Andrew's talking about. 12:20.71 archpodnet Um, right right? sure. 12:29.92 archpodnet Right? Well I think the machine learning is going to solve that for itself the more that it gets to learn Doug you took your hand away. Do you still have a comment. 12:41.83 Doug Yeah, no I was just ah tidying up in the background there. Um man I have like a couple of comments I'm just gonna be throwing grenades left and right here what is like a huge pet peeve about like the whole younger generation is ah more technically capable I. 12:45.70 archpodnet I. 12:59.14 archpodnet Map. 12:59.55 Doug No, no the younger generation knows how to swipe because they grew up swiping and that's it no no like like all technical stuff. It's actually a really good job by ux designers um, ah and basically like. Everyone thinks like oh my god because they can use a smartphone that you know several billion dollars has been spent on to make it them one of the most usable things out there that somehow that makes them tech savvy but like honestly no generation. It's all roughly the same like. Most people know how to push buttons. Um, but like if you ask them like any of the underlying code or you know how it how it works guaranteed every generation you basically have the same number of people who know how the underlying bit of ah machinery. 13:39.48 archpodnet Me here. 13:55.80 Doug But if we want to call it or code works. But for the most part um, not even close like it's it's it's a Mirage just because they've grown up ah swiping and people assume that swiping means you're tech savvy and it does not um so ah. 14:06.43 archpodnet Well let's let's qualify that then let's do these one point at a time right? Doug so and then we'll probably take a break after this. But I guess when I say tech savvy I mean I you're right I don't mean they know the backend because it's like cars. There's very few people that will open the hood of a car these days and know what they're looking at versus twenty years ago right 14:13.70 Doug Um, yeah. 14:26.40 archpodnet That's just that's just people just expect to know how it is because designers and engineers are getting way better at making these things more reliable and you don't have to know as much like that. It's the same thing with apps and computers if your computer breaks to twenty five years ago you'd open it up and and figure out what component is bad and buy a new component now you just throw out the trash and buy a new 1 right? like it's just That's how it's getting right? So I totally agree with that. But I feel like the younger generation is always trying to pivot to the new thing right? They're pivoting to the new thing which doesn't make them more tech savvy but it makes them more on the cutting edge of things like chat gpt like finding easier ways to do stuff. Rather than the old way that everybody always does it. They're going to like I'm going to find a new way to do this and see if it's better. It may not be but I feel like they're they're always going in that direction. You know what? I mean let's. 15:16.13 Doug Well I would I would say laziness runs well through all generations um equally like ah like actually the only people I know who's who's using chat all the well so you guys can't see this because we're a podcast but I'm doing. 15:19.23 Bill White Yep. 15:19.50 archpodnet Um, sure. Yeah. 15:33.39 Doug Air quotes for artificial intelligence. It's machine learning everyone who's using the machine learning stuff. It's all ages and actually I haven't seen anyone really young using it. Um, it's all been older people I've seen um, having a blast and also like people who just get tired of writing emails so that they've. 15:51.33 archpodnet So. 15:52.95 Doug Just use it to make prompts of like here I want to say an email on this ah please write me something to save me a whole 2 minutes um but like yeah, there's that I'd also like just to go back to a comment from ah Bill and stuff. 15:55.82 archpodnet Right. 16:04.57 archpodnet But on do Doug Doug let Doug I want to give people chance to comment on what you're about to say so let's take a break real quick and then we will come back and I'll open with you all right back in a minute. 16:11.40 Doug Yeah.