00:00.00 Alex And we're back with archaeoadmals episode 63 We're talking about the zooareology of the predator from the predator franchise and we're going to actually break down the general anatomy of the predator which I mean there's not like a lot to real I mean there's a. Not to say but there's not as much as say the Xenomorph you know like they are quite humanoid. 00:27.24 Cpt Granarius Yeah, so I guess we we could talk about ah the the the suits. 00:30.30 Alex So yeah I mean I figured because I'm not sure if you've seen this simona the original predator design from designers Steve Johnson and boss film studios which I actually had never seen either until somewhat recently I've sent you a link. 00:47.40 Cpt Granarius Then I've seen it I quite like it to be honest. 00:47.93 Alex You can look at it and yeah I mean it's and um and did you see the the gif as Well. So Just in case people don't know. Ah, just sent Simmona a gif of the suit in Motion. So It's colored completely red to do the cloaking device special effects. It's a bit silly. So for those? Yeah, so for those who don't know the original actor to play The predator was. 01:11.46 Cpt Granarius So sneaky. 01:21.46 Alex Jean-claude van dam and so they tried to design the suit and to like show off his martial arts expertise which is so wild to think about a predator film like that. But I mean it's more bug like I think that's the main thing right. 01:38.78 Cpt Granarius Yes, is definitely a lot more insect like which again would sort of mirror the Alien in a way so it's it's not as Humanoid as what ended up being the final design like the only thing that's guess Humanoid about it is that it's bipedal. 01:44.72 Alex Yeah. 01:55.30 Alex Yeah, and I think that's actually where the the design starts to get in trouble. So like the actual there's a mcette. They've made of the design. It looks so much cooler. It's got these like sater-like legs that like bend backwards which obviously became a technical nightmare trying to do it because. Like I said they're trying to design this suit so that they can let John Cle Van Dam do all these wild martial arts but they have to also make the legs bend backwards. So it basically became an impossible design problem where they couldn't both. Keep that design but also make a usable suit for stun actors. So the design gets scrapped and they make the the actual predator that we now know and love question Mark is depending on how affectionate you are to this franchise. 02:48.22 Cpt Granarius We we know and acknowledge. 02:52.32 Alex We know and acknowledge. Um I think we actually talked about this a bit in the alien episode. But the the we keep referring to it as the predator when it does have an in-un universe species name the yo yeah, ah. But I think we'll just keep referring to it as the predator because it's yeah yeah, but it does have a actual species name. So just want to recognize that and like we said much more humanoid overall originally designed by Stan Winston who is you know the amazing special effects. 03:08.85 Cpt Granarius But everyone knows them as. 03:26.76 Alex And creatures guy who didrassic park and all that other stuff. Um, but yeah it it became more humanoid I think just as a technical thing it it made it a wearable suit but it was also bigger and like. Instead of going the bug direction and what the reptile reptilian direction which I feel like do we keep going then Tristan okay, um so it it definitely went the more reptilian. 04:03.70 Alex Kind of approach which I think like we talked about in previous sci-fi episodes of that like if you're making something science fictiony. You either go like Reptilian or bug. 04:14.20 Cpt Granarius Yeah, like I would I always pictured a sort of bug like at least sort of like the fate. You saw the the mouth this very sort of like the mandibles are insect like. 04:22.20 Alex And. Yeah I mean I actually really didn't think about it until I was started to do notes for this episode of like yeah I guess it's always because I've always thought of it more reptile-like and I think it's because of the skin and then being like oh yeah I guess the mandibles make it more and especially when you compare it to the previous design. Where it does have mandibles but like really more bug-like um, but yeah, so this new design that became the design for the films had 2 distinctive characteristics. So like the prototype type predator. It still had these bug life. Features in our case here more anthropod like rather than the kind of Mantis Mandibles that the other one had apparently this is actually a suggestion made by big Jim Cameron while he was ah promoting aliens he was like sat on an airplane next to Stan Winston and apparently they were just talking about creature design and he was like yeah I've always wanted to do something with big mandibles. So thank you big Jim Cameron for your your service to this franchise. 05:37.33 Cpt Granarius They guess a way this' somewhat closer to the colliserre of arachnids um, so like actually so close enough that there's a whole genus of Goblin Spider named for the alien preda toro pre runops. 05:40.40 Alex In. 05:54.37 Cpt Granarius With some species named for locations, characters and actors. Oh yeah, that there is a spider somewhere out there bra yourselves called pra the Toru Knobs schwarzeaggger 05:58.86 Alex You could do it. 06:10.80 Alex Science is amazing. 06:14.71 Cpt Granarius Beautiful If you take anything away from this episode is that there is a spider out there somewhere thus named after arnor schwarzenegger. 06:25.74 Alex Not only named after Arnold Schwarze thinkgger named after predator and Arnold Schwarzenegger 06:29.62 Cpt Granarius Yeah I Wonder if he knows has he been made aware. He must know. 06:35.24 Alex Um, I mean yeah I'd want someone to tell me if they were naming something after me. 06:43.64 Cpt Granarius Um, but yeah, they're the same mandibles that you you that you can hear in the film sort of making the distinctive sort of clicking noise Tristan could ah oblige. 06:49.30 Alex Can can you do an impression of the clicking noise. 06:58.00 Alex I mean That'st First of all, that's an audible nightmare to hear my headphones I think I've actually kind of close. 06:59.20 archpodnet I tried I sorry sorry everybody I I actually I remember playing the alien versus predator 2005 game 07:08.29 Cpt Granarius So what. 07:13.74 Alex Oh yes. 07:15.74 archpodnet And like I love playing as the predator and I always remember you know you creep up behind marines and like you're doing that signed I'm like they're going to hear me and then I'm like oh no, this game has been 2005 we're fine, but no, that was that yeah, that's that's where I learned it. But yeah there you go. 07:33.79 Alex Thank you, Thank you? Thank you? Thank you? Um, they also have these very characteristic fleshy appendages embedded into their skulls which have erroneously been referred to as dreadlocks. 07:34.19 archpodnet That's my use done. So. 07:50.26 Alex But they're actually supposed to be like flesh and in Universe according to the expanded lower. They're supposed to be really similar to cat whiskers in that they're used to support balance and reflexes. So there you go. 08:06.15 archpodnet They So the cats you know I mean is the kind of noise that you do to attract a cat. Perhaps the predators have just not met the cats that they're looking for and that's why they're clicking all the time. 08:07.27 Alex Cat whiskers. 08:07.55 Cpt Granarius But the more you know books. 08:22.67 Alex And a cat has there been a cat in the because obviously alien has ah Jonesy like ah famously and but does prep I don't think predators has a cat so there's like another l for the franchise. 08:26.51 archpodnet Um, yeah Jones yeah. 08:32.40 archpodnet Oh exactly. 08:35.29 Cpt Granarius Um, ah Jonesy could take them. 08:39.72 Alex Yeah, probably they would probably come back and give jonesy a weapon from the fifteenth century. We'll get into that in a second. So yeah within the franchise as we said predators. Are actually more sentient alien beings and they have a very distinct culture. So I feel like we have to actually talk about the culture a bit because it means we can think about them in a more archaeological perspective as well. We can't really do with say the xenomorphs you know they'll leave behind a material culture. So. It's a bit like there's a caveat here. Of course we only really ski the hunters from the predator species. So it's not entirely clear and I'm sure there's some no offense but nerd out there who has read all the comics and will tell me I'm wrong and that there's like a whole like you know, establishing culture of other things. So I don't know if it's their whole culture is actually centered on hunting and more traditions or if it's just a case for the ones that we see but we are just going to talk about that right now. 09:47.86 Cpt Granarius Yeah, see yeah that could be centered on hunting. It could be hunting as a rite of passage. You could just be like a group of hunters. But then you've called the entire culture the ah predators I Guess not unlike sort of Scandinavian sea herring populations. Just. 10:03.28 Alex Yeah. 10:03.73 Cpt Granarius All being called bikings and um, but yeah, but we'll just talk about the hunting bit because you know that they are made up. It's fun. 10:13.40 Alex Yeah, well they do have a very specific code of honor with regards to hunting again like simmona said someone to like write a passage or assembly for sport so they will only hunt and kill prey that actually prove a challenge meaning that they will often spare. You know pregnant humans children and mostly unarmed humans unless they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger because then he's probably a challenge if he doesn't have anything on him. 10:43.59 Cpt Granarius So like I'll be safe. 10:46.11 Alex Yeah, oh my gosh they would just be like do you need help. Do you want to take some of her weapons just in case. 10:53.46 Cpt Granarius Ah. 10:56.21 Alex Speaking of yeah. 10:57.52 Cpt Granarius Um, but big because they're hunters. Um, they will carry a very specific kit with them that will make them easier to identify. Ah this includes a wristand with a self restruct system in it. Beautiful Ah a medi kit. And perhaps mostly sticking distinctively a biohellmet which allows course to like to protect their head but also to expand the visual spectrum and mimic other species vocally which in fact, like you don't really see like the predator up until sort of like the very end of the first film when once the bio helmet comes off. 11:28.60 Alex M. 11:33.67 Cpt Granarius Ah, course there's been lots of variations over the films. But um, many of them are mostly designed to look very skeletal and even. 11:41.46 Alex And then even do over care myself again. Um, okay, um, so then even their actual approach to hunting is something you could look at archeologically because specifically they're trophy hunters. So their kills are very tanomically distinct and just real quick if you don't remember Taonomy is basically what happens to remains that lead them to look the way they do when we find them as archaeologists so like real life trophy hunters their main. Processing methods for their kills are either skinning or decapitation. So we've actually talked about both of these things in previous episodes but kind of as a ah quick review of what it's like skinning we'll leave behind taenomic indicators on certain bones. Specifically cut marks where tendons are connected so the metapodial bones for example and of course the cut marks would depend on the tool being used as well as the skill in skinning so I would assume for a predator I mean it's pretty good. They famously will just kind of like take. The skid off like really easily so they're probably really good at it. 12:59.25 Cpt Granarius And yeah, just a very clean and quick job as well. It just seems like a piece sleeve like um, um, but ah the the capitation of theory will unsurprisingly leave behind some damage to cervical vertebra normally either in the way of a. 13:02.23 Alex Yeah. 13:16.83 Cpt Granarius Chop mark or where so of the bones have been some dislocated and um torn apart because in this particular case so be like largely so the first thoracic burtebra um, but it very much depends on the method. Ah, and you can find trauma in parts of the cranium as well. Course none of it applies to the predators because they're so strong where they literally just rip out the skull and basically entire spine with their bare hands. So ah I guess you you could argue that maybe there might be some trauma in the lumber vertebra when it got separated from the rest of the spine. 13:52.00 Alex Yeah I mean I think there's also the case that if you find skinning and decapitation and there's just very little tanomic signatures. You just assume that it was probably a predator like. 14:04.54 Cpt Granarius I know that wouldn't be my first thought you'll be like oh half of this skeleton is missing. It might be you know, like natural process or just the position process my mind wouldn't immediately go oh yes predator. But. 14:17.86 Alex Oh that's that's not what you that's what I think if I can't find a taonomic center try I Go oh predators are real. They were're hanging out and in in later Prehistoric britain. 14:21.63 Cpt Granarius See ah. 14:29.67 Cpt Granarius So ah. So could be that that could be the than the next film we're all waiting for the predateine iron age Scotland. 14:36.50 Alex Call us come on ah come on. That's a goal mine. Everyone loves iron age Scotland so the other thing again as trophy hunters they may. Also wear the remains of their prey. So for example in predators. There is actually a predator who wears the partial mandible of a xenomorph on their helmet. So again that kind of trophy culture and behavior. You'd probably see archaeologically now. The other thing and we've kind of we briefly mentioned this but I feel like it's important to note because it's it's kind of my favorite thing about predators like their lore is that when predators are bested in combat, they'll actually give the winner a trophy of their own usually a weapon so this is again. Kind of spoilers but in predator two. Ah, they come back and they when Danny Glover has you know, kind of saved the day and defeated the predator. The other predators come back and they give him a flitlock pistol implying their long history of humans. But also potentially for us at least this means that their assemblages might be like a mismash of artifacts from various time periods and cultures and planets and species which I guess in retrospect is probably a bit of an archeological nightmare. But I always thought that is so cool. 16:04.59 Cpt Granarius Yeah, cool. But also yeah, they're just like taking all these artifacts from various time periods. They're not recording the context. They're not putting anything down. Ah unbelievable like ah do do better predators do better. So. 16:11.12 Alex It's a bit problematic. Yeah, that being said I do love the trope of the like like recognition from like the the bad guy or like the enemy of a story being like good job kids like I don't know I love that. Like the first time I watched predator it too I was like so hype for that. It's like yes they think of him as being so cool I a simple person folks I like these simple things I clap like a seal when Danny Glover shows up. Very easy to impress me now the end on a bummer note we do so talk about avp. Um, and again I think we might have I I think we might touched upon this in the Xennoorf episode but I feel like if we are talking about Archale. We kind of have to talk about avp. 16:49.18 Cpt Granarius And it does what it says on the tin. Ah do we have you do we have to. 17:04.99 Alex And for many of the reasons why they're not the best films 1 of the other ones is that it's one of those ancient aliens films. It falls into that pseudo archeological trope with the reveal that predators taught ancient civilizations. How to build pyramids which is problematic. But I guess in the reverse does that mean that pyramid architecture is common in their societies I mean again, we don't at least in the films. We don't see much of like their home planet or their. Culture outside of the hunting predators. So again, it might be in the comics. But yeah, can't get can't get away from ancient aliens unfortunately people love it. I don't. 17:54.90 Cpt Granarius The I feel like most people don't so just just please don't just. 18:02.38 Alex Just stop and as we beg people to stop? Um, we're gonna take a break and then we'll come back to case studies. 18:12.17 archpodnet That sounds good.