00:00.00 Alex And we are back with archaeo animals episode 62 and we are talking about the animals and creatures of medieval maps and beastiearies and we're going to start with what actually originally inspired this episode which is the Harford Map ofund ah, Simona I feel like you should take it away cause you are the person who originally kind of suggested this. 00:23.73 Cpt Granarius Um, yeah I mean the the herefordt mapperundi is ah well, it's a medieval map of the world hens Mapperundi ah, the fact that it's called the hereford maperundi gives it away that it's ah in Hereford. And is currently held at Hereford Cathedral um dates back to about a 300 a d and is ah as far as we know the largest medieval map surviving. Um, there was a larger one called the ebstorf map ah which was unfortunately destroyed during allied bombings during ward war two in Hanover Germany 1943 the Hereford Mapperundi is a t and o map as we mentioned earlier you know circle with a t within that covers Europe Asia and North Africa but also includes a plethora of bits and legends such as the location of the golden fleece and the cretan labyrinth as well as locations which are mentioned in the bible. So for example, you have eden located in an island at the top which is the east if you remember and the tower of babel. Babel bubble. 01:36.87 Alex Apple. 01:39.15 Cpt Granarius Me foreign help Babel Baby 01:40.66 archpodnet I I think I think it's babble because it's babblefish in the hitchhackish guide to the galaxy. 01:46.94 Alex Yeah, that's what I would have assumed. 01:49.13 Cpt Granarius Um, ah I request assistance from Native speakers. 01:53.50 archpodnet I think you picked the wrong 2 speakers here. But I think babel depends like if you went to some but is somewhere posh like oh yes, that's the tower of babel. Yes, it's new Islington in London. 01:55.82 Alex Me yeah. 01:57.25 Cpt Granarius I. 02:11.85 Alex It was very good. It was very good. 02:12.70 archpodnet That was my best posh english accent sorry I'm gonna go away just wait till you hear my New Jersey one and I'm going to mute. 02:18.58 Alex Yeah for that's for the best good all right? So are you ready simona for our first defiction of an animal. Are you ready to look at this. 02:22.70 Cpt Granarius It's is he's abruptly disappeared that's fine. Um me yeah yes, because also by the way like aside from all these weird and wonderful things. It also includes animals. 02:37.78 Alex Yes. 02:39.30 Cpt Granarius So the first one we'll be looking at is the Camel really. 02:44.87 Alex So yeah I mean it's not as spectacular. Some of the other ones. But um. 02:51.59 Cpt Granarius Um, it looks like a border Collie That's not doing very well. 02:53.10 Alex It is a bit of like I said a lot of these depictions tend to either be horses or dogs or combination of 2 and I feel like this one's a yeah. 03:04.10 Cpt Granarius It feels like like much of the beastery animals like that the author sort of would be asked before they took on the jobs like oh so how many camels have you seen? yes. 03:17.35 Alex It's one of those things now where you're kind of just like if when you look at it. You kind of see that someone was clearly describing it. Ah as okay, it has humps. It's got 4 legs and then that's probably the extent of it of what they've been told. 03:28.20 Cpt Granarius I Guess it's it. It's got it's got hoops which again would be major red flag for a Border collie. 03:33.15 Alex Yeah, yeah, so I get so I can assume someone being like okay so I saw this animal we call it a camel Now. It's got these little lumpy things on its Back. It's got four legs. It's got these little ears and it's like a horse. So I can kind of see where I can see where the vision was going and this and. 03:56.75 Cpt Granarius So you know we're going with Bactriann Cal because we've got the 2 hubs. Um. 04:01.81 Alex Which is interesting to be honest that you can at least identify it to that. 04:06.48 Cpt Granarius Yeah, everything else is confused the ears. It's very. It's got a doghead. 04:11.90 Alex Yeah. 04:17.59 Alex Yeah, it Yeah, that's a dog That's just a dog isn't it. But yeah, it is actually in the text I don't know if you can kind of see it in the red ink above it. It does say bactria. 04:35.77 Cpt Granarius oh yes, oh yes good pria Camelot camelot but Camelot aber so has has something. 04:36.62 Alex Um, and the text. 04:43.88 Alex Yeah, ah. 04:50.61 Alex I have the actual of the um translation on hand onworth well well to be fair. It's also really hard to read you like luckily if you go on mapamundi dot code UK and you look at the interactive map they do provide text. 04:54.26 Cpt Granarius Oh you're cheating then. Ah. 05:08.28 Alex Kind of help out. It is actually really hard to read but I am also cheating sorry to everyone particularly my Latin professor. 05:17.94 Cpt Granarius I Mean to be fair like paleography. It's ah its own discipline and for very good reason. 05:22.84 Alex So yeah, the the text accompanying this is illustration does actually help identify it as a bact and Camel and it says that bacteria in particular are very strong and never wear out their feet. 05:38.23 Cpt Granarius Um, because of medieval camels in general were also viewed as long living creatures that could live for hundreds of years unless they're exported to a foreign land because the air will make them ill and they'll die which to be fair like checks out. You take a. Camel and you take them to like Britain where it's very wet and much colder. They're not going to have a brilliant type. 06:03.77 Alex I mean you could take an Alex to Burton when I first moved here and I was so ill for two weeks it was horrible. So. 06:12.80 Cpt Granarius I Was gonna make that joke and it I refrained and then but you you did for me so it's great. But. 06:17.87 Alex I did because because it's real and it pin and I was really sick and my skin was the worst it's ever been when I first moved here. It was horrible. Do not recommend. 06:30.29 Cpt Granarius Because I could have lived for hundreds of years. But then I moved abroad and now I'm Ill um. 06:34.20 Alex yeah yeah I mean the anxiety alone. Let's be real but um, yeah, so it should. We should also say that not only are the illustrations a bit wrong, but so are some of the beliefs about these animals. Ah, so the other things that medieval camels were believed to be able to do is they were to be fair, this 1 ne's actually kind of accurate. They were noted for being able to go for at least three days without water I actually don't know what the specifics of that are for camels but it's not. 07:09.50 Cpt Granarius I mean um I'm not sure actually. 07:13.70 Alex But it's about it's about right? You know they they they are able to hold water in their homes. So that's fine and they were known to have an appetite specifically for Muddy water and would make clear water dirty with their feet I Actually don't know enough about cowls to refut that. 07:29.83 Cpt Granarius Ah I mean I can tell you that the last one is incredibly true as it is for every species on the planet you step in a River A riverbed's made us sold what your legs gonna do kick up the sal. Do you think. 07:43.35 Alex Yeah, they yeah yeah, that's that's fair anyway. Should we get to our next one. So this is the links. 07:46.27 Cpt Granarius Yes, so yes, that's very accurate. Ah, boy sure. 08:00.80 Alex Ah, Simona would you like to explain it looks like. 08:04.96 Cpt Granarius Okay, so like I can see the the bottom half looking feline like I would have gone for lion over links but you know like okay that checks out the tail is kind of liony I mean Lynxs do tend to be bobtailed for the most part but that's fine. 08:10.18 Alex Yeah, yeah. 08:24.68 Cpt Granarius The head looks like a bat. 08:25.94 Alex Do you see anything in particular that may be a bit weird about the head. 08:31.69 Cpt Granarius Um, I mean ah the heart The eyes are huge but I get that as that they use that eyesight a lot. The nose is doing things as well. I'm not too sure what's going on with the nose. 08:38.72 Alex The eyes are huge. Yes. Even those I mean the best way I can explain is that it looks like gonzo from the Muppets a little bit. 08:54.00 Cpt Granarius But also like the teeth because it looks like you know when someone and when a child is trying to draw like you know a human face of someone smiling and they will just like do the mouth and the opening and then just put a line in the middle with lots of vertical lines and that's your teeth. 09:11.23 Alex Yeah, so some explanation um they got massive eyes because Lynx's link linkxes were known for their keen eyesights and the accomping text actually says that they could see through walls. 09:11.74 Cpt Granarius It's just that. 09:27.49 Alex However, links were also believed to forget what they have seen immediately once it looks away now the other thing which we haven't mentioned because it's not that noticeable but the text in this manuscript also says that lynxes can urinate black stones. Which is depicted helpfully under the links that we're looking at right now you see that like little black Circle. So in general Medieval links is were believed to be able to urinate precious stones. Although it is sometimes described as flame colored in other texts. 09:49.00 Cpt Granarius Um, yeah, yeah. 10:02.93 Alex So they would hide their urine with sand in order to hide these stones. 10:06.93 Cpt Granarius Just to be fair like I can see where they would have thought that because think of your box than a domestic cat sort of dig it up and covering up their things in the litther tray. So I get that pressure stones I mean. 10:11.30 Alex Yeah. 10:26.40 Alex Yeah I mean I guess I guess the idea is that people never really got close enough to see what they were actually kicking up and obviously they would just find p so you know. 10:26.61 Cpt Granarius To someone. 10:38.79 Cpt Granarius I Also would like to see I would like to know how they test their the hypothesis that they can see through walls Did theyre randomly just Nick one from the wild bring it to a castle and then just someone stood on the other side of the wall. 10:53.90 Alex I Yeah I mean I'm not sure the kind of scientific rigor that went that these kind of images went through to be honest and the other thing and it's hard to tell from this image. But apparently a lot of other medieval links were always depicted as very wolflike except they often had spots on their backs. 11:04.90 Cpt Granarius Um. 11:12.50 Cpt Granarius Me check it, check us that checks out for links is because a few of them sort of like that coat color. They do have sort of spotty lacks. Um, but now I do apologize that like he so to turn very quickly into like Simone. 11:12.64 Alex Don't know what that means. 11:19.22 Alex True. 11:27.66 Cpt Granarius This is Medieval beach but it's just it's all I do truly love these ah maps and beast cherries. It's just like what it's all for comedic effect. It's jes. 11:30.61 Alex Um, if it's all out of love. 11:41.27 Alex Yeah, so we'll we'll go from this map to kind of the other maps. We just talked about which are the ones that actually kind of deal with the sea so they obviously illustrate sea creatures. So if we want to go to serpents. 11:59.28 Cpt Granarius And powers. 12:01.25 Alex This is the what the one we are looking at right now is hold on the one we're looking at right now is from the carta marina and it depicts a serpent called the sea orm or the great Norway serpent. 12:18.70 Cpt Granarius Um, okay, nice to meet you arm. You're a big red boy. 12:20.30 Alex I mean I mean that's so that's a worm it. So wo with a way like ah, a dog head right. 12:31.47 Cpt Granarius Yeah, it does look quite wolflike because almost like I guess some of them scales right? next to the mouth would almost look like they're drawing like first or like in the the neck fluff in a wolf. 12:45.94 Alex I Mean yeah like I said I think you can really kind of make a category of ah medieval depictions that just kind of look like they put a a dog or wolf head on something so it's probably false. 12:54.21 Cpt Granarius Um, so. 12:59.71 Cpt Granarius So I'm also like not animal related at all. But I focusing to like I don't know something to the Northeast. Oh no I guess no, that wouldn't be the northeast was east is at the top up. Ah no right? Um, this. To the southeast. Um there's an edgeches render just just something awful that and I want to know what it is edge is the render karib this carib this. 13:29.64 Alex I Mean that's a big fish that's like a little that's a weird looking fish. 13:34.40 Cpt Granarius To that is horrendous up. Okay, back to back to Armma Yeah is ah is a It's a one red boy. 13:42.62 Alex So He is a warm red boy probably the most common sea Monster found on Medieval maps and you know the sea servants such as the sea orm where. Reportedly encountered by sailors whose descriptions would inform these illustrations now I did say this was just a worm with a doghead but they were actually often described as worm-like and hundreds of feet in length and able to wrap for themselves around ships to destroy them and. Unlike Land serpents sea serpents had really hard rough heads with no feet or fins so they were literally just worms in the water as you do. 14:22.79 Cpt Granarius Um, no snakes. Don't have feet or fins. No questioning. 14:29.85 Alex I Mean they don't but like I don't know I guess you some sea serpents I feel like in other Contexts will have like little fit and things. 14:42.70 Cpt Granarius Um, oh yeah, yeah, no, um, yeah. 14:44.75 Alex Anyway, we'll we'll get to something else. That's not wo like kind of which are sirens and this one's from the theattrom Orbis terra room I did it? Yeah and I mean this is. 14:53.29 Cpt Granarius Um. 14:56.20 Cpt Granarius Out I'm proud of you or them. 15:03.17 Alex Yeah, they're they're naked. Yeah, there's up. There's there. Yeah, there's some so for listeners at home. The yeah this sirens we're looking at ah they've kind of I Guess they've put the tail. 15:05.50 Cpt Granarius Odd now. 15:20.86 Alex Kind of in a place where I mean it's in the right place. 15:23.11 Cpt Granarius You wouldn't expect the nocus but normally they can I guess at least up ah contemporary depictions of science. It tends to be just just below the belly button. 15:33.60 Alex Yeah, but this we can see a but so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah. 15:40.64 Cpt Granarius Um, ah no, no medieval siren but as scandalous. 15:49.45 Alex Now they're originally depicted as half women half bird but later on mainly depicted as half woman half fish although some depictions actually kind of split the difference and combine the two with bird feet and fish tails. Um, as many of you might know sirens or. In folklore were seen as dangerous for sailors as they charm them with their singing and then they murder them which is fun. Big mood I guess. 16:19.47 Cpt Granarius Um, some other folklore um include that sounds only sing during storms and weep when the skies are clear which is also a big mood. Um, and another says that a sailor can escape a sign by throwing an empty bottle. Which will distract them as they will play with it. 16:39.55 Alex Also big mood. So yeah. 16:44.24 Cpt Granarius Other big mood seems like signs are all of the moods they are sometimes depicted with mirrors to illustrate their vanity. Yes, you you love yourself Siren you do you? Um So overall. Ah this was of course in the conflicts of the time. Viewed as an allegory for selling one's soul to the devil for worldly pleasures. 17:03.75 Alex Of course now I think we're going to go to potentially the most hotly anticipated 1 within like our our podcast group chat. Let's talk about the sea pig simona. 17:10.36 Cpt Granarius So with. 17:16.48 Cpt Granarius Yeah, yes, let's as depicted on the Catta Marida um look at this sea Pig I'm expecting a lot of fan out. No no, what. 17:35.74 Alex Ah, hey so Moa What does it look like what it look like smoda. 17:36.48 Cpt Granarius Yeah, oh that's going to hold my mind. Well what? Well a but ball. So I guess they're kind of half right? Ah why has't got eyes on the side. 17:45.13 Alex You know what I did even notice that the first time I put this on the show notes and now I'm like oh how did I miss that. 17:53.93 Cpt Granarius Okay, um, well for reference everyone because not not everyone would have heard of the sea Pig Um, but a sea pigg is actually a small creature that lives deep. Down in the sea floor know it doesn't look much like an actual pig. Um, how do we describe but a sea Pig. It's not what the sea Pig looks like on the map I mean it's quite pink I Guess not unlike sort of. Oh you sort of picture a pig ah that just um, but let the see Pig is a small creature the sort of yeah is found at the bottom sort of deep down on the seaf floor. 18:35.10 Alex This this man broke your brain. 18:50.21 Cpt Granarius Um, it's the things in common that has in common with the Pig. It's I Guess just that it's pink and color like you would normally picture domestic pigs like commercial farmed pigs to look like look it up I Just I can't describe it. But what we're looking at here. In this? ah Medieval Map is a Bona Fide Pig or bore I guess with officious body that's got eyes on it but also webbed feet. 19:28.80 Alex So yeah sea Pig It's probably related to what is now called the deep water sea cucumber. Ah so ah, but its name and depiction likely is based on plenty the elder our fave. 19:30.52 Cpt Granarius Let's check. 19:37.45 Cpt Granarius Yes, um, scottoplan a species. 19:46.90 Alex Ah, his theory that every land animal had an aquatic equivalent so sea pig and obviously uses an allegory of course it is for deceitful heretics who lived as swine and apparently they look like that. So I think we'll go to a break while Simona's getting over this I didn't realize how much psychic damage this would do and we'll get back to you once when we've calmed down. 20:15.17 archpodnet Perfect.