00:00.00 Cpt Granarius And we're back from. 00:00.00 Alex And we're back folks with episode 54 of archaeanimal scales and tails reptiles in archaeology we are at our case studies part of our episode where we will be talking about very specific case studies of reptiles being. Found in the archeological record and yes, this is everyone's Favorite. We have to always acknowledge this fact that isn't real and there's something I made up about 50 episodes ago and we've just committed to this bit and we can't not commit to the bit anymore. 00:29.35 Cpt Granarius We it and we can't not commit to the bed anymore but just just keep the lie consistent. 00:35.86 Alex Like many parts of my life I keep the lie going until I die so it's fine anyway, our first case study is from the lesser antilles which are a series of islands in the caribbean sea and include places such as Dominica Barbagos 00:43.91 Cpt Granarius And from the lesser. 00:55.56 Alex Aruba and St Martin alongside loads of other kind of small islands and regions like that so examination of many prehistoric assemblages. In fact I think most prehistoric assemblages. Found across these islands have indicated the presence of snake remains in half of them. However, a combination of small amounts per assemblage. So not enough to be used as evidence for you know, subsistence or other anthropogenic usage and. Kind of a lack of expertise in identification down to species which is also due to a lack of comparative material available. It's made their usefulness in zoo archeological research problematic however, more recent work looking specifically for. Presence of boa snakes among these assemblages have actually generated some really interesting results. So for example, closer examination of the snake remains to identify them. 2 species has actually revealed evidence of modification on some of the vertebra specifically look. Kind of polishing a typhonomy which has clearly been trying to make them more rounded and more bead-like so obviously these remains have been interpreted as evidence of manufacturing vertebra into beads. 02:23.78 Alex Which is super interesting, especially knowing how difficult it is to find taphonomy on vertebra someone who has done that a couple times on fish vertebra. It's not fun and it's incredibly incredibly impressive that this was kind of picked up. So the really interesting thing is that this action seems to be specific only to boas as similar evidence has not been seen on kind of the more represented snake species in these assemblages so it could be indicative of a certain cultural status. It could be of course. There's a survivor you know, but there survival bias at hand we know that many boa snakes like the bo constrictor are pretty big in comparison to other snakes. Um, but combined with historical ethnographic studies. This likely speaks to a particular status of boas among most indigenous communities as something to respect and fear thus explaining their relative absence in deposits compared to other snakes because they weren't being actively hunted or really interacted with by the indigenous communities around here. But obviously more work and it needs to be done. But yeah I really liked this kind of case study just because 1 find like I said'd finding vertebra tephonomy is extremely hard and it's interesting that they were just trying to identify. 03:55.43 Alex The bones to species and then found this but also I'm really it's interesting to see the impact of not having comparative material available and I think we kind of talked about this with the Amphibians but you know with Amphibians species and reptile species you do tend to have a lot of. 03:57.15 Cpt Granarius And also I'm really excited. 04:15.28 Alex Either close to endangered or endangered species along amongst those and obviously that means finding comparative material which for those of you who don't know lab of zoo Archaeologists use, modern comparative bones to kind of combine ah compare them with. Archaeological remains to identify the species. Obviously it's a bit more problematic to have that for more rare species. So. It's interesting to see that impact research like this. 04:48.45 Cpt Granarius Well, it's very interesting because he has said I've never come across Reppttilian remains so much less Ruffian remains which show signs and modification. Yeah I can't remember. 04:57.43 Alex Yeah I can't remember how they actually found that like I said boa snakes tend to be quite big but vertebra are still not the the biggest thing in the world. So when I did my master's research on fish bones for some. Horrible reason that no one talked me down from I decided to use scanning electron microscopy so this really powerful big microscope to look at the fish vertebra which we had a lot if not thousands. And kind of look to see for evidence of consumption. So obviously for fish. It's the slight the slightest chance of finding butchery which I don't think I found any but the main tanomic thing I found was evidence of. Digestion. Obviously a lot of fish bones are quite small. You can swallow them and um and not just humans many animals will just swallow the fish whole and as it goes down your digestive track. It actually causes a very particular type of. Compression and erosion of the bone. So yeah, it's very very hard I spent a lot of hours looking at really tiny bones for that. So extremely cool that they were able to kind of find it I guess reptile vertebra isn't. 06:30.64 Alex Necessarily as bad as fish vertebra though. Probably not that far off, but it's pretty interesting. 06:37.38 Cpt Granarius It Really interesting. Yeah, and so being able to tell that the identify it like positively has to followy as well course I don't know to what extent um evidence of point modification is present on this vertebra Bennoina Sometimes some bones can actually show like. Ah, signs of polishing like naturally sort of like if there's water movement if they just roll around the ground. You can get some but then it's also being able to tell like okay this is natural sort of like a natural dephanomic event versus these have been polished sort of it's an anthropogenic factor. 06:54.65 Alex The. 07:12.80 Cpt Granarius So yeah, good good good on them. Yeah, and I think I think a lot of this is still very preliminary I mean. 07:13.29 Alex Yeah, and I think I think a lot of this is still very preliminary I mean the report I read was very you know upfront about the fact that a lot of work needs to be done and really kind of highlighted these limitations I talked about as far as you know not having. As much evidence to really concretely say anything about the use of Snake remains specifically but remains. But I think having the historical ethnographic studies as well. Which um again I'm not sure if we really have talked about you know the fact that. Ethnographic studies are often used in archaeological interpretation and in that you know if you do an ethnographic study so say interviewing Descendant Communities indigenous communities things like that and ah understanding. Their perspective of say how certain animals are used or even like history family Histories Oral Histories you can use that with archaeological evidence and kind of get a better idea of Interpretations. So. It's interesting to see that combination in there. 08:20.14 Cpt Granarius That So it's interesting to see that combination in their Gi Of course they're They're incredibly useful and fascinating. So called so long as you remember sort of the limitations of it because course by using the ethnographic record. Um. 08:27.30 Alex M. 08:34.64 Cpt Granarius If you apply a sort of word for word so to speak in a way, you're kind of making the assumption that that culture has not changed for 2000 years which of course isn't the case. Um, and also again, not not the case here but just speaking broadly where people can use things from the ethnographic. 08:40.93 Alex Exactly. 08:53.21 Cpt Granarius And record of a culture and then apply it to some completely different on the other side of the globe as saying oh but because there was this culture in ah southeaster the United States used to do this so this culture in New Zealand must have been doing it for the same reason which no yeah, definitely can be used problematically. 09:06.70 Alex Yeah, definitely can be used problematically but I think you can also say that about basically everything in archeology everything ever. 09:12.30 Cpt Granarius I Think you can all say that about basic everything in archeology everything ever if your if your hashtag like archeology is problematic but hey feel it problematics ah a soft word for what archeology has historically done. Um. 09:23.17 Alex I Feel like problematic's a ah, soft word for what archeology has historically done. 09:30.99 Cpt Granarius But yeah, and for a second case study. We're going back to the world of turtles. Um, we're moving to the southeastern United States um and now of course turtles have been utilized across North America for substenance and sociultural reason ah reasons like for. 09:50.35 Cpt Granarius Very long time you see you know, um, the shells being used as bowls cups effigies you know among other things. Um, what we are specifically going to be talking about for this case study are turtle shell rattles and which traditionally have been used by many sort of southeast indigenous groups such as. The cherokee the shawnee the chickasaw and the seminole peoples now total shell rattles are made for a variety of species. But in this particular region of ah North america they're mostly made from the eastern box turtles. The therapeic carolinaolina carolinaol now Carolina Carolina um guess where they mostly found um, other for fact um, box turtles I call that because they can actually close up the shells like a box due to a hinge at the bottom of their shell. So yeah, that's um I got a note here from Alex saying I wish you could do that I do. 10:43.70 Alex I Do that would be amazing if I could close myself up like a box. 10:45.88 Cpt Granarius It would be amazing if I could close myself up like a box see if you'll want to be bothered and should go no I'm in my box. You can't touch me in my box. Um, but anyway what makes the total shell rattle. So interesting from a zooeological perspective. Is how difficult it is to differentiate between a worked shell. That's been used as a rattle does a turtle shell showing modification during cooking. Um now. Um, archaeologists have since been able to identify sort of several key characteristics to help differentiate between the 2 users. Including sort of part of me whether there are any associated ceremonial ritual objects. Whether it's a funerary context if there's a species preference for subsistence like these are the um, the crafting of rattles and the additional of rattle implements which. And would normally take the place take the form of pebbles freshwater drum alpu dinatosrunions. Um, now usually their teeth and seeds. Um, which would again all be used to sort of create that rattling noise the the characteristic that. It's probably most interesting for zooareologist involved representation and modification rattles are only representative of 2 elements of the turtle skeleton. So yeah, have eat the carapus the top we'll know that and the plasrum as we've learned is the bottom part. 12:21.52 Cpt Granarius So Aka you know the shell the addition of other elements in a deposit may suggest that you're looking up food waste as opposed to just literally just finding the carraice and the pla does a modification. There are 2 things to mainly look out for um, whether it's. Intentional modification or unintentional modification. It's intentional where you find for example, actual sort of drilling into the shell which would allow for sound to be produced as well as to tie the shell to arms legs sometimes to a hide. However, you can also get. Unintentional modification that can be made during this process So Stress Marks polishing from use Again. We're talking about polishing just earlier. You can also get accidental polishing through sort of repeated use and touching of the the object of the bone object. For example, um. 13:18.34 Cpt Granarius And there's other signs of modification in the form of cut marks sort of snappy etc which of course will be more associated with fruit remains and of course you know, being able to differentiate between these different types of bone modification is vital to understanding. You know what. The turtle remains would have been useful and give you a more sort of accurate understanding of the activities on site and of course in the particular context but other the least in United States this also potentially more impertinent port and purpose because if you. Um, sort of positively identify cultural objects within a deposit then you have more of a claim under nacpra which will allow them for the repatriation of indigenous artifacts and remains. Yeah I realize you know obviously we do. 14:05.70 Alex Yeah I realize you know obviously we talk about animal bones predominantly on this show as we are a zoo archeology show. So we don't really ever talk about the kind of you know we were just talking about archeology is problematic. Um, we don't totally talk about the kind of ethical considerations that other parts of archeology usually get more scrutiny under you know, obviously if you're working with humor remains and if you're working with certain cultural material artifacts. You have to consider you know respects and you have to consider ah sovereignty and repatriation and obviously for the United States this often falls under nagpro the the nara act which covers repatriation for indigenous artifacts and remains and with animal bones. You don't necessarily deal with that. You know for the most part animal remains and archaeological records are either kind of natural deposits because animals are all around us. Or their consumption. So they're they're kind of rubbish basically but this was an interesting case study that you know turtle rattles our cultural objects and not only did would they help you kind of have more of a claim. 15:38.82 Alex For kind of repatriation or indigenous sovereignty over a certain deposit if you found them. But also you know they themselves are cultural artifacts that should go back to the the descendant communities from which they came from and you know they this. Probably more examples of kind of animal-based artifacts that are really important cultural objects that should be repatriated or you know again included in more indigenous sovereignty and ah agency over what's being done with their artifacts. But yeah, we don't really get to talk about that I think on this podcast and obviously I think anyone who talks about Archeology. It's important to emphasize the importance of these kind of acts and of the kind of moral obligation I think Archaeologists at least should have to make sure that ancestor remains. And cultural objects and all these kind of things go back to where they belong with whom they belong really or at least that these descendant and indigenous communities have a say in what happens to them. So Yeah I think that was interesting to kind of briefly mention that like I said I don't think we will normally have a opportunity to really talk about that. But again I think it's very important and also ah to to bring the mood up a bit I will. 17:05.59 Cpt Granarius Very important and also I. 17:13.62 Alex Admit another Alex moment in that I just thought I've never been to the southeastern United States and then remembered where North Carolina is which is where my family now lives in. So. 17:28.58 Cpt Granarius So I mean that the box startle that we literally just talked about is the terrafe a Carolina Caro like less. But. 17:31.40 Alex There listen. 17:38.10 Alex Listen They don't ask you to know geography in archaeology. So yeah, anyway I think that's enough of that for this episode and. 17:51.19 Cpt Granarius So that's enough of. 17:57.45 Alex Think I need to go look at a map of the United States a country that I spent 22 years of my life living in and kind of figure out what's going on there anyway as you as long time listeners know. But I'll say it anyway, you can find us wherever. You download your podcasts and if you're there think about subscribing or following our show think about leaving us a review a nice 1 hopefully and telling your friends about us. We always like to get new listeners to listen to our nonsense and be completely confused the whole time we are on Twitter still. Somehow at archaeo animalss follow us on there and again, let us know what you want us to do episodes on because we do like doing listener request episodes especially when they have basically nothing to do with zoo archeology and have more to do with video games. 18:53.20 Cpt Granarius And I am itching for a video game episode. It has been a time I mean we have the Alien one but that was it was briefly touched on like a handful of video games. It's It's not quite Yes, please please give us. 18:55.27 Alex And. 19:00.95 Alex It's probably been like. 19:08.18 Alex Yes, please please give us a request to do another video game episode Simona is dying but I think that about does it for us. So see you next month for our next episode. 19:11.92 Cpt Granarius Ah. 19:18.10 Cpt Granarius I this so see you next month for our next episode until then I'm out with Patrick Seemonfaanga bying listening to our you animals goodbye bye. 19:25.11 Alex Until then I'm alexwizpatrick and you've been listening to Arche Animals goodbye. 19:36.36 archpodnet Someonea really hurrying that send off are you? Yeah on yeah right. 19:36.38 Cpt Granarius Simona really hurrying that sendoff by. She's been saying that since 1 somon Gora Jesus yeah hey I'm all better now is. 19:38.77 Alex Bye bye she's been saying that sinces a minute one I believe with this episode simmon go rest Jesus.