00:00.00 Alex Hey everyone welcome to episode 54 of archaeo animals, scales and tails reptiles and archaeology I'm Alex Fitzpatrick and with me as always and this episode we be talking about well reptiles and archaeology. 00:10.55 Cpt Granarius And see one of aanga. 00:19.48 Alex So tune in to hear more about that or something I don't know we put reptiles and archeology in the title. So it's a bit repetitive. 00:29.11 archpodnet So that's good. You didn well doing Well Nope that was fine. Keep going. 00:34.81 Alex Do don need to do another stab at that or queen move forward. So yeah, last episode we did in fact, brave the very confusing and somewhat terrifying world of Amphibia. So today we will. Face yet another similarly difficult journey as we travel to the land of reptilia whoo spooky or something. 01:04.29 Cpt Granarius Possibly even more confusing and terrifying because reptiles are even harder to come by than amphibians. 01:12.73 Alex Yeah I mean last episode we did say you know there's a couple reasons why british archaeologists and even british zoo archeologists tend to kind of ignore amphibians there's not that many species native to Britain and you know small bones. Harb them to kind of last that long in the archaeological record and let's be real. There are some people who probably just couldn't be bothered and fair enough. You have finite time on sites and there are lots of things to deal with now reptiles pretty. Similar story. We do rarely have to deal with them. We only have six native species of reptile most of which are quite rare now but like amphibians reptiles can not only tell us much about past environments but in some cases. You know they're also known for cultural or economic value. 02:21.37 Cpt Granarius Yeah mean, um, did the thing as well. So with the species that are normally found sort of in the british isles. They're also so small in size that yeah, you're not as likely to retrieve them in an archeological setting. Except through like bionic environmental soil sampling and that so yeah, the the possibilities of finding them. You know, like as a species that are not super common in the first place and that also reduces further and um, yeah reptiles. Um I mean but um. As we said yeah, there's only 6 species that are found in the british isles and these are the common lizard who zoot talk ah vi v perra which is of apus as you might expect from the latin name. Um the sand lizard lacheta ais so very agile would presume. Um, perhaps not as agile the slow worm angu is fragile is just literally says but is that theyre fragile in the actual scientific name. It's beautiful. Um, the grass snake narickelvetica the adda vi peraberru. Um, the smooth stak caught on in lous threekaka tag yourself on the slow wom. 03:36.68 Alex Tag yourself on the slowworm. 03:42.53 Alex Just saying. So yeah, you know as we did with our last episode. We should probably back up a bit because you know we don't really talk about reptiles per se. So yeah, what exactly are reptiles. Well. They are part of the taxonomic class of reptilia and they're etothermic aka cold blooded and they are vertebrates just like amphibians. But what makes them different is that their eggs aren't actually laid in water. As you may remember amphibians they do in fact, lay their eggs in water so reptiles don't go through that weird awkward phase of you know, having gills and having to kind of transition out of that similarly they have scales instead of that kind of smooth moist wet. Skin that amphibians need to survive and I heard Simona give a big sigh potentially over the fact that I use the word moist I mean how else would you describe Amphibian Skin 04:44.40 Cpt Granarius You You just had to put it in there didn't you I mean how else would you describe Amphibian skin slippery they' moist. They're wet the big wet boys. They are a bit slimy. 04:55.61 Alex They're moist. They're wet. They're big wet boys. 05:02.48 Cpt Granarius Um, um, but ah Skeleton Wise. Ah I mean much of the same issues that we've encountered with amphibians in our previous episode which um, by the way if you're not listen to it. Please go check it Out. Um, but yeah, some of this sub similar collegial issues. Remain from an um, anatomical standpoint ah because their size and texture mean that they can often get mixed up for bird bones. They also have similar I Guess um, well similar Similarity Similar quirks. Ah, for example, Vertebra numbers are often varied. Um, the vertebra themselves can be very difficult to differentiate which to be fair if you have narrowed it down to rep reptile Frankly, you've won So you know, um, of course there's some particular. Types of reptile. Ah that have their ownkeletal quirks. So um, these are the Tor toys and the turtle which are technically from the same order of the thestuiness. Um, whether their shells are made of both skeletal and dumb or bone because why not Um. So the part but of the shell that you mostly see is called the carapis with the shell itself technically connecting other elements of the Skeleton for your Vertebra Ribs Pelvis shoulders while the bottom is called the plasron. Yeah I'm going to be honest I see. 06:29.34 Alex Yeah, I'm gonna be honest I spent far too long of my adult life before I I got to grad school not knowing if shells were technically part of the skeletal system for you know. Turtles and tortoises. 06:49.91 Cpt Granarius I Yeah I mean I guess so that they are and they're not yeah. 06:55.30 Alex Yeah. 07:01.50 Cpt Granarius That's a very helpful amount. 07:01.54 Alex They're very yeah, they're very interesting and obviously it lends itself to different types of uses in the archeological record which we'll talk about later in this episode you know obviously. 07:06.30 Cpt Granarius And differ types. 07:16.91 Alex Even Amphibians were not just used for say just either kind of existing in the environment or being used in some other kind of cultural way depending on what kind of region or time period. You're working with but I feel like reptiles in particular have maybe a bit more kind of. Cultural bag not baggage but cultural weight maybe because of the kind of unique qualities that many of them have so you have like turtles and stuff they have shells which is ah relatively unique for an animal per se and then you obviously have you know snakes which. Them themselves have various qualities as between having Venom or just being kind of scary which is not an ah opinion I share because I was so obsessed with steaks as a child. I desperately wanted a pet snake and my father was too scared of them to allow them in our house and he still kind of wanted a pet snake. 08:20.81 Cpt Granarius Coop I think they're ran here. Yeah, um, do 1 thing else. We were trying to look up as well because of course, um. 08:22.80 Alex They're cute I think they're very cute hello. 08:35.23 Cpt Granarius Tor toys and turtles are probably just something you're not going to find all too often in ah british archaeology unless they were imported in although there was a species of turtle that was found in Britain like that the european pond turtle. 08:40.84 Alex E. 08:53.85 Cpt Granarius Emiss Orbicularis which apparently was found. Um, yeah, like more several thousands of years ago but they were at 1 point found in Britain and then went extinct. That's yeah I was kind of surprised reading the. 08:56.45 Alex Ooh. 09:07.67 Alex That's yeah I was kind of surprised reading the list of British reptile species that were extant and also native to the British isles because I I figured out like you know I figured Navy a turtle right? like. And obviously as you say there there was one that did go extinct but it just it feels strange I guess. 09:34.21 Cpt Granarius Yeah, and also ah with reptiles in Britain I mean they are verb I guess they're kind of living on the elusive side of life. So I don't think I've ever seen like a singular reptile for all the years of lived here. So like supposedly we get common lizards. 09:40.96 Alex M. 09:50.91 Cpt Granarius Where I'm from you get them absolutely everywhere. You can't walk anywhere then Bam there's a common lizard looking at you funny but never see one here. It is funny. Yeah, like obviously. 09:58.40 Alex It is funny. Yeah, like obviously the United States is in itself just such a massive b land mass that we have a huge diversity of species depending on where you are and you know even in the New York we had snakes and turtles and. All this kind of stuff and if you go down south like in places like Florida it is literally just lizard central among some other larger. Maybe more dangerous reptiles down in Florida but yeah, it's funny to end. Okay, this is me going back to kind of. Support myself and fend for myself in the not believing squirrels existed in the U K because you know not seen that many reptiles in the u k I feel like it stands to reason that you may not have squirrels just saying. I still don't think it was that wild of an idea. It's basically the same thing. I. 10:56.51 Cpt Granarius I don't think it was that wild of an idea. basically the same thing it's basically the same thing I mean like yeah you you walk into any sort of ah British Town Center and all you see is just great squirrels and adders everywhere. 11:12.85 Cpt Granarius Listen I don't know. 11:13.68 Alex Listen I don't know I just didn't see a scroll for like the first couple years I lived here. Ah and I still haven't seen any reptiles so you know it's basically the same thing to me although I was gonna ask Simona have you ever. Run into a reptile archeologically okay Aston answered it is funny though isn't a oh we have a I'm get sensing a. 11:33.59 Cpt Granarius I No okay asked an answered. Yeah, just no money though isn't it. 11:49.40 Alex A message from Beyond I Believe someone else has experienced a reptile in the archeological record. Oh gosh. 11:55.13 archpodnet Um, okay, but it's going to be a really kind of roundabout way so I experienced I find several Newts or I think there was like salamanders or something ah while digging. Yeah. 12:07.47 Cpt Granarius New Several Amphibians Yeah, and they they. 12:12.41 archpodnet Um, they there were I think they were frozen alive and like the or frozen dead with the the ice or something because I found them in an archaeological site. So Technically they weren't archaeological but they kind of were archaeological but they were definitely modern. They had not Skeletonized. So. That's technically how I find a reptile in an archaeological setting. 12:32.75 Alex Well, if it was a nude then you found an Amphibian Yeah no, those are I think those are are those amphibic Oh my gosh. Everyone's turning off this podcast because they're like. 12:35.19 Cpt Granarius You? Well, that's new that and you found an amphibia. Yeah, not reptile what about salamanders are they not like I think those are are those amphibic Oh my gosh. Everyone's turning off this po. Um I'm not dignifying that with an answer I. 12:36.75 archpodnet What about salamanders are they not like lizards. Why you shouldn't. 12:51.31 archpodnet I Okay so maybe I haven't then ah okay, well I don't know my salamanders for my Lizards Unfortunately I will now slink away and go back to producing. 12:52.46 Cpt Granarius Okay, so maybe I haven't then salaanders are amphivian see I definitely knew that didn't just Google it. Okay well I don't know my myself. 12:54.26 Alex Salmanders are amphibians see I definitely do that. Didn't just Google it. 13:05.90 archpodnet And try not to make any other silly comments. How did I get that wrong. What. 13:11.17 Alex I Mean to be fair, it is I think I think I'll I'll give you credit because I think that there is overlap in terms of like obviously you know their reptiles and Amphibians are Cold-b bloodded vertebrates they lay Eggs. So. I Think that you can kind of mix them up a little bit I mean literally I could not remember if salamanders where Amphibians are reptiles um because it and I think also just because like we think of like you know, bigger kind of Lizards There are obviously reptiles so it would stand to reason. 13:34.77 Cpt Granarius I because ah and I think also. 13:48.24 Alex In your brain to say oh salamanders are small Lizards hence they are reptiles. But now they are amphibians. So I guess they're just moist. 13:58.27 Cpt Granarius It Moist lizard and correct. Well I guess the same with the nude because it's it's kind of Lizard shaped is just ah is slimy lizard. Yeah, because. 13:58.37 archpodnet And I stand corrected and. 14:05.50 Alex Yeah, because you know when if you say name Amphibian you're going to go frog right? or toad if you say neouptile you're gonna say Snake Lizard crocodile. You're not really going to say. 14:12.88 Cpt Granarius You know when if you say name comes. 14:24.59 Alex Salamander newt because it's not the first thing you really think of our now na getting very defensive because we're just showing how little we really know about reptiles and amphibians these 2 episodes. 14:30.80 Cpt Granarius It little. We really know about reptiles and amphibians these 2 episodes. 14:39.48 Cpt Granarius But case in point reptiles are very hard to encounter in the archaeological record. Although of course you know as usually does back to question saying is it really that rare or we not like we do. We not have the tools to proficiently identify it. 14:40.82 Alex It's fine. 14:45.53 Alex And. 14:57.28 Cpt Granarius But mean some people surely do but but because I do you find like a small bartebra and you're going to preview. Oh yeah, that's an Amphibian Yeah, and I think also. 14:59.71 Alex And obviously. 15:05.62 Alex Yeah, and I think also depending on where you are obviously some reptiles are you know, much much bigger if we're talking about reptiles here in Britain like we said a lot of them are you know relatively small. So if you do find. You're lucky enough to even have bones kind of survive to be found either. You're you know there's a good chance that you can misidentify them as say bird bone or even you know, depending on small it is rodent or something like that. Um. In comparison to say someone working in Africa who is able to find you know crocodilian bone which is relatively bigger and probably has a better chance of surviving so it just you know it depends There's a lot working against ah british. Reptiles unfortunately when it comes to finding their remains in the archaeological record Although of course it's not to say that it doesn't happen. It does occasionally but you know you're not really going to definitely find it like we were just saying simmonna you said you've never found it I've never found. Reptile bone ever working in zooarchaeology here in Britain even looking at you know, site reports and stuff for my research, you occasionally see people who identify frogs so amphibians but I don't think I've ever seen a site report. 16:36.43 Alex At least in the kind of regions and time Periods I work in ever really mention reptiles. 16:43.83 Cpt Granarius Because I guess reptiles I guess much like amphibians for the most particles there are notable exceptions of it throughout Britain but they weren't as extensively used by people to the extent that they would have been used by other populations around the world. 17:00.54 Alex Yeah. 17:02.95 Cpt Granarius So the remains you'll find are more likely sort of um, period environmental in nature of just you know this frog that happened to die at the bottom of the stitch or the dieds and we're near the ditch and the remains got washed in. So um, again, probably not as a. 17:20.81 Cpt Granarius Likely to find them under archaeological settings and more likely to find amphibians because Britain is a moist country. So. 17:29.70 Alex End I Guess yeah. 17:31.96 Cpt Granarius It's a lot of high water tables and ponds and streams and Brooks and things and the amphibians are going to love that reptiles. Yeah yeah, we're a wet country for a wet people. 17:41.23 Alex We're a wet country for a wet people and a what wet biodiversity that's beautiful Simona. Thank you for putting that thought out there into the world. 17:50.47 Cpt Granarius I's going out there into the world and and while we reflect on this um poetry by Alex I guess we'll take a break.