00:00.00 Alex And we are back with archaeo animalsals. We are talking about the zooareology of the zeomorph in the alien franchise. Although to be fair, we're actually going to take a little bit of an aversion of this last section and talk a bit more about the archaeology broadly speaking. In the alien franchise because there's actually like a fair amount of archeology that takes up a lot of the broader lore you know like a lot of zeno archeology because we're talking about lots of Zenos here baby I don't know I don't know. Folks are ah. 00:38.72 Cpt Granarius Um, I mean technically most of the actual archeology is found in the prequel series. But you we do see the beginnings of it sort of part of me in the first alien film. Where the crew of the nostroma originally sort of first gets in contact with the xenomorph after exploring ancient remains of an alien ship on a nearby moon as you do and it said it's in these ruins that one of the crew members of Cain played by the late and and brilliant John Hut was implanted with a xenomorph embryo. And then the whole you know chess burst thing happened and the baby you know more for me the way and the survival horror that we know and love truly begins. 01:19.15 Alex Yeah, but you know was probably more interesting apart from all those those many many eggs that John Hert comes across is the remains of an alien life form. That's known as the pilot or the space jockey and it's this really really big. Body that's found in what was most likely the cockpick of the ship who died after a chesbuster had you know burst out of its chest which actually makes me think because I remember us thinking about this when I was like kind of writing the notes for this episode and I was like. Kind of counts as archeology right? is that weird to like feel like it doesn't yeah and I don't know what it is that makes me feel like it's not archeology I guess because off I don't know if they they really. 02:03.11 archpodnet You know this note that is definite archaeology. 02:18.63 Alex I Can't remember it in the first one if they really kind of play up how old it might be like it's supposed to be like a fossilized kind of body that Space Jockey is right. 02:27.57 archpodnet And it definitely looks like it I think like they were definitely in some of the filming notes really trying to amp up how like age it was like it was like fossilized practically like they made it to look to be fossilized and obviously. 02:39.36 Alex Yeah. 02:45.35 archpodnet Fossilization in space. You know you know like that's going to be taking a long time So you're also uncovering a what's it called like you're uncovering a a ship you know, like ah a way of life. Ah like an organization of space. 02:57.30 Alex And. 03:03.36 archpodnet Within ah in ah within a kind of confined space like there's design choices in how the rooms are laid out the tunnels. You know where everything's designed. It is archaeology. It's just not archaeology of humans. It's archaeology of another sentiend species. So. 03:18.86 Cpt Granarius Eat our trilogy. Yeah and they didn't even take a single photo not a single section drawing and you know a plan could have but could have made a nice grid and planned everything 1 to 20 But no, they just had. 03:21.20 archpodnet Definitely Archeology Xeno Archeology I know. 03:22.79 Alex Um, yeah. 03:33.65 Alex He hates it. 03:33.92 archpodnet Um, I mean they they actually you know the thing that's annoys me, you know the face hugger eggs. They have the like they have a flat level plane and it's like got these like lines that go across like you can easily just like plant out your grid there count your eggs and you know like ah yeah. 03:35.97 Cpt Granarius So and get face hu goes all over the faces. 03:53.33 archpodnet I Think if I was going there I would do a better job. Yeah. 03:57.20 Alex I Guess the thing about it that makes me like not see it in a archeology head space despite the fact that this is a fictional thing and it's you know Science fiction is I Guess yeah, aside for that I guess is because they are They are originally going towards it with the the intent of. 04:07.21 Cpt Granarius Aside from that. 04:15.76 Alex Salvage and oh there's like you know a downship should we check it out. Ah and you know I mean that's obviously part of the the plot that they aren't expecting to uncover an ancient ship. But I guess that kind of also speaks to what might be the. The the problem with archeology being a huge part of the lore specifically in the prequel films because um, yeah, so the prequel films end up kind of returning to this alien spaceship and specifically the the space jockey by further exploring. The franchise is kind of deep lore and tying it even more directly to archeology particularly in Prometheus where two of the main characters are actually archeologists and it's it is funny because I didn't even pick this up until I was like rereading the the. The plot summary for this episode I completely forgot it begins on the isle of sky which is part of the inner hebards of Scotland so not that far from where I excavate. It's very strange. 05:20.97 archpodnet And I know but like I mean like we like representation but not this kind of representation. 05:24.43 Alex Do do we. 05:28.83 Cpt Granarius It just like I'm gonna I'm gonna struggle a little bit here because to be honest I kind of Merge prometheus and conant together and I'm not entirely sure where one ends and one begins is just one blob. 05:42.63 Alex Yeah I mean yeah, it's I mean I didn't see covenant I I read the summary for this episode doesn't seem like I missed much besides potentially just watching Danny Mcbride be Danny Mcbride and yeah, so first red flag I guess is that the archaeologists and Prometheus discover that several ancient cultures have left behind parts of a star map that would. Potentially lead them to the site of humankind's ancient alien ancestors and there there's your red flag. That's the foghorns going off at the the phrase ancient alien ancestors because yeah, this film utilizes some problematic tropes. With regards to city archaeological beliefs that ultimately have really horrible consequences for others in the real world and it it's bad. 06:43.44 archpodnet And I think I think there were some so like notes about the creation of prometheus where one of the things they wanted to do was almost like have the plot to us being that like there is human dna in the original xenomorph. And it's actually like all come full circle and it's kind of like me sewing ha ha ha me reaping oh no, but like I think they really this is the problem is like that was that's an interesting thing to talk about but like. It's almost like they bent over backwards and they actually tore up a lot of their own canon in order to kind of make that happen and that's why they've come up with this whole ancient aliens thing because all they wanted to do was demonstrate that like humanity is the vicious one you know, humanity's. The the evil within inside you know this like this weapon but like I think that kind of takes away from the cosmic horror of alien that's my biggest problem with prometheus and but Prometheus is actually not the first film in the series to actually engage with this. Unfortunately, it was actually aliens versus predator which I think but brought up the ancient aliens kind of thing before I don't know if. 08:01.16 Alex Oh yeah, does I kind of term that my brain off when I just watch them fight each other yeah course. 08:08.86 archpodnet Um, yeah, so like they have the the pyramids and everything pretty sure. It's a pyramid in Antarctica which is like if you thinking about pseudo archeology that's like that. That's the big one like. 08:18.16 Alex Yeah, yeah. 08:20.14 Cpt Granarius Oh I think I think that's the one a sort a bit ah of and they just I didn't finish it I think that's the one I remember something Antarctica pyramids it rings a bell. 08:27.35 archpodnet Um, yeah, and base 10 is the the counting cyt everything it like but what? what? what's I mean like I this is actually relevant to again you talking about this 2000 game 08:35.34 Alex Um. 08:43.20 archpodnet And the aliens were preatory game. You get to play as the alien and you you spawn inside one of these temples and then you have to like take out humans and predators and stuff and I just remember thinking like the whole like walls were adorned with like. Alien hieroglyphs. You know it was like hieroglyphs ancient egyptian stuff but it had the the iconography of the alien as well and the zenovorf and it was just like I know what you're trying to convey here like you're trying to convey that like this is not the first time humans have interacted. You know there's more to this. But I feel like it takes away from ultimately what aliens about is this um challengeable horror. You know this cosmic horror this horror beyond humanity that can't be comprehended. But then we get little snippets of. The relationships of that horror to like the engineers. That's where we get the space jockeying the spaceship and that's where we're we're only getting bits and pieces of it and we'll never ever be able to understand at all and I think leaving it as something that we can't understand would have been better. But instead they they made Prometheus now we have to talk about this stupid archeology I mean yeah, sorry as you can say yeah. 10:04.50 Cpt Granarius Yes, I mean like dont remember much about it and I think just in general as a theme like the whole like precursor race thing. It just just just no yeah. 10:04.84 Alex Now it's yeah. 10:13.79 Alex Yeah, and it's funny because like predator kind of I mean it's got its own problematic stuff but it it kind of gets around that by just having it be like the predators have always visited earth and fought humans and that's how you get like the most recent predator which takes place. In the seventeen hundreds and you know they they come back and they you know fight humans in different ages because they're all about you know the sport um and you know thrill of the. 10:36.84 archpodnet Um, this is. 10:42.83 archpodnet Yeah, but they're not like they're not like giving humans like technology. That's that's what annoyed me about like prometheus it was almost like you know we we are Aliens. You know we are the engineers regenerated you know and I think. I'm okay with the predator one just because it's like oh they interacted rather than you know your standard ancient Aliens fair where it's like oh we couldn't have achieved it without the external you know like interaction I think that's the big problem with it. 11:17.25 Alex Yeah, it. It also makes me think about how often when Science fiction tries to touch upon archeology. How Unfortunately how often that becomes a trope they fall on is particular you know like and I guess in some ways I can kind of understand it. You know if you want to. 11:28.92 archpodnet Meaning. 11:36.74 Alex Do an archeological take on science fiction. You're kind of thinking all right if it's more. It's this human centric type of field. So obviously if we want to tie aliens to it. This is how they do it. But obviously it's it's racist and Xenophobic and bad and we shouldn't. 11:50.14 archpodnet Are. 11:54.95 Alex You know tolerating it because it has like I said it has extremely real world consequences. Even though that you know some people might say that's silly that oh who's going to watch Alien and then think something racist or whatever but it normalizes it. 12:01.25 archpodnet Um, you. 12:05.98 archpodnet No, it's it's It's a more abstract. Yeah, it's It's more abstract than that isn't it. It's it's like building up this expectation that like there are certain bits of history that are just up for Grabs and that could be just toyed with you know like it's like. 12:19.30 Alex Yeah. 12:24.58 archpodnet You know I'd love it if like the alien franchise had like focused on like Stonehenge or like you know neolithic mounds in Ireland as the that that was what the aliens kind of got in involved with to help people build because like when you look at pseudo archeology and ancient alien stuff. Always stuff that's like in the global south. It's always like oh no, these people these groups of people couldn't have been you know technologically advanced to do this and that's that's that's the that's the problem you know and I think but I I also want to say that like it's lazy. 12:48.28 Alex Yeah. 12:58.73 Alex Yeah, yeah. 13:00.59 archpodnet You know there there are so many things that you do with archaeology in terms of a methodology because I obviously we've not made contact yet so we can't really talk about like what the analogous alien anthropology would be but like. Think there are things that you can apply to human anthropology that would work with an alien species and you could actually do it in like and a nice way where you're actually trying to understand things and and coming back to your point where you were talking about like when. The crew of the Nostromul first went on the first ship in alien that they were kind of like looking for survivors. They're looking for salvish they weren't actually like trying to examine anything I think you know like I think that kind of ties into the wider themes of like the anti-capitalism kind of narrative. 13:47.74 Alex Here. 13:57.23 archpodnet Of alien which I know that like you know, very own brand for me, but ah to bring that up but like you know this whole idea that the the company just wants the bio weapon at any cost and you know they're willing to sacrifice the crew for that I think I think those are the broader themes that like. We we we look at as an example of like how contact will probably actually happen rather than like oh let's study these ancient like all things in Scotland didn't leave us on a map like we're never going to get a map when we're going to get map. 14:35.94 Cpt Granarius But also I guess in a way. It's just sorry it just overused in it just overused that way because you you can have some nice sci-fi without precursor races and things and you could just like that. There are so many like. 14:36.32 Alex It's yeah, it's probably oh. 14:36.37 archpodnet You know gone. 14:47.43 archpodnet Okay, totally. 14:53.16 Cpt Granarius Universes and things out there and not all of it has to be linked. 14:55.17 archpodnet Totally totally. 14:59.11 Alex It's funny because that stuff also kind of speaks to the simultaneous like Horrific ego and yet kind of weird optimism of humans in the idea that you know. Oh we would if we made contact we would start thinking immediately tackling these huge philosophical questions of like who we are and then the ego of but they'll give us the answers and we just need to find it. It's very interesting in a kind of abstract way but and but again it's.. It's a lazy trope that people should stop relying on and I I get why it's used but come on guys. It's bad. 15:39.60 archpodnet Um, I mean I mean like I mean that maybe was one of the redeeming features of prometheus was that like you know they were like looking for the end to the end to find the engineers to actually find Out. You know the secrets of the Universe. The Intonnesians attacks them. That's just like yes, Yes, Thank you You know, like if we ever interacted with the past you know I would expect the past to fight back you know to slap us in the face and go no I will not be understood I'm not here to be understood leave me alone. 15:54.15 Alex Yeah. 16:11.12 archpodnet And I think it's the same for like when we ask these basic questions you know and I think I think the thing is that like the Alien Lore is very messy and it leads to a lot of interpretation which gives a lot of fodder for archeologists because that's all we do. 16:21.68 Alex The. 16:30.99 archpodnet You know is we interpret things. Um. 16:34.30 Alex Yeah, and yeah I mean it's I mean ultimately I think a lot of it is ah a misunderstanding of what archeology is what it's kind of used in these ways and I mean obviously that's me not trying to obscure the fact that. 16:42.50 archpodnet Um, easy. 16:48.48 Alex Archaly is often used in harmful ways to begin with, but it's that kind of misunderstanding of archeology is you know finding the truth when it's interpreting the past it's you know that's all we can do and it leads to like stuff like that and you know I don't want to I don't want to end this episode being down because it is unfortunately. A thing we should talk about but I think there's still kind of some other interesting archeological themes that can be found throughout the Alien films that aren't necessarily as problematic. You know there's these themes of identity of Lineage. You know. Even ignoring the precursor race thing you know this idea of who we are in comparison to these aliens that can take on your form more or less like kind of adapt to parts of you. You know weaponizing things for power which is a very archeological theme if you're looking at it. Ah, as a field of itself. But yeah would be nice for science fiction to realize you know you don't have to do the ancient aliens route if you want to do archeology just saying hot. Take. 17:54.29 archpodnet I No this? Yeah no I Totally agree but I also think as much as I like like to lampoon things I think it's important that archaeology does get representation. So people do get intrigued and it's just up for. People like us to kind of be like hey I know that sounds killed but here's the real Deal. You know that that's that's our job. 18:18.16 Alex Yeah, so that's why we're saying to the Disney company which now owns the property to hire us to be in the next alien. 18:26.39 Cpt Granarius This this. 18:29.11 archpodnet Meeting. 18:30.41 Alex Installment as the 3 archeologists that no one listens to and we get killed off within the first 35 minutes 18:38.87 archpodnet Okay, ah. 18:40.43 Alex Just saying if anyone wants to let us know and hey if you're an agent who wants us to be part of this you know franchise let us know. Ah, but if you just want to you know say hi tell us about what you like about the episode tell if you want us to do a predator one. 18:40.57 Cpt Granarius Right? um. 18:57.76 Alex You can find us on Twitter at archaeo animals. We are on the Archeologyity Podcast Network website we are you know you know where you find us, you're listening to us right now but hey while you're looking at us on Itunes or stitch or whatever you know. Follow us or subscribe to our podcasts give us a like or a rating and a review all the other fun stuff. What am I missing anything. 19:25.18 archpodnet You know that's that's good and any hate mail goes to me Tristan at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com 19:33.40 Cpt Granarius Ah, you are you took the words out of my mouth. 19:33.83 Alex Oh and if you want to give us fan art draw us as xenomorphs very happy for that as well. I would love to be completely scarred by some horrifying fan art of me with a big head. Well bigger than I normally have so hey. You might we might put you on your Twitter and all that stuff we've had some fun fan art in the past and as always, it's been me Alex Fitzpatrick and Tristan was here too. So. 20:01.68 Cpt Granarius Let's see about a fellanga. 20:03.33 archpodnet Hey.