00:00.00 ALEX And we are back with archaeo animals the podcast all about zooareology. We are doing our episode on the zooraeology of Asia as part of our. Where in the world miniseries where we've been looking at the zorchiology of various regions and continents throughout the world because god knows that we need to stop talking about Britain all the time It's been interesting though I can't. Lies a good It's a good ah way to get us out of our shell and talking about different species and different just all different types of things that we wouldn't really be talking about if we stuck to our expertise. 00:43.12 S_ Granarius Yeah, absolutely. 01:34.28 ALEX So yeah, we are at the case studies as always the part that we will just demand that people make it their fair part of the episode I don't know why we started doing that to be completely honest. 01:21.16 S_ Granarius Maybe because it's our favorite reallyley. 02:11.00 ALEX I mean yeah I think it's I always see ah the part of the episode where everything comes together because we spend usually spend the none None parts talking about very specific technical things and the case studies lets us bring everything together. The. Contextual stuff and you know the the history of the actual excavation sometimes or you know we just kind of have a laugh. We have. 02:22.28 S_ Granarius Yeah, because that's a thing cause in a way like it really depends from episode to episode, but it tends to be sort of a more not quite practical approach but like depending on how sort of. In depth for much time we have to go sort of more in depth you see the actuals and the zoo archaeology being uncovered on site and so the interpretation of the evidence found on site and not just sort of the notionistic sort of discussion about like various domesticates and wild species and. 03:52.88 ALEX E. 04:14.50 ALEX Yeah I think it's like the None 2 parts of the episodes we're talking about you know what? we know about the species the kind of knowledge that already exists and then the case studies are just examples of applying that knowledge. 03:31.76 S_ Granarius Ah, relevant. 04:06.86 S_ Granarius Yeah, on an archeological site. Yeah. 04:51.14 ALEX Perhaps yeah as 1 tends to do in these situations. Anyway, yes, yeah, well speaking of. 04:19.54 S_ Granarius In the field that is archeology. Um, what we'll start off with a night with a nice um bronze age site. Um, so is there is the zooology of Harappa Pakistan um so as I said as a bronze age site located in Punjab Pakistan. 05:26.90 ALEX Um. 04:59.12 S_ Granarius And as part of the broader Indus Valley Civilization the site itself was an elaborate city and an important part of the Indus Valley trade routes eventually becoming a major center for culture and economy during urbanization inhabitants likely utilized animal husbandry as far as subsidence strategy. Supplemented through fishing and like various other marine resources ivory was common if commonly founders raw material on site implying an abundance of elephant remains or elephants as a resource either. You know you know around sight so in that general area. Similarly um. 06:46.80 ALEX Ah. 06:15.98 S_ Granarius There have been many Elephant Scalletta remains and Elephant iconography in Hadapp and Contexts ah some have argued that this could indicate not only the cultural significance of the elephant but potentially evidence of early elephant taming and management. Arguably the most famous set of artifacts coming out of harappa are the animal seals. Um, which we could argue are important to Zoological understandings of the past. Um, so like real animals so to speak found on these seals included bulls. Bison elephants tigers and also mythical creatures including a unicorn or I mean like a bovine creature with one horn. You'd get horned hybrid creatures including tigers and elephants 3 headed Bowvins. And human handle hybrid creatures because we also we always love one of those like the human animal things. The latter may actually be depictions of mythological stories that have since been lost to time again going back at what we're discussing a couple segments ago. 09:12.84 ALEX Yeah. 08:34.52 S_ Granarius But like what sort of remains we find now a certain iconography. Ah how many of these are actually part of sort of stories and traditions that are so like far removed into the past that we've ah we don't really know what they represent anymore. Um, and terms are like none. 09:43.36 ALEX Yeah. 09:10.74 S_ Granarius Mammalian sort of depictions on these seals you you do find birds as Well. Including what some have believed to have been chickens. Ah, which again as in turn being used as evidence towards potentially early domestication of the chicken here. Ah but again that is debatable because we. Don't necessarily have the corresponding sort of skilleto evidence to corroborate that theory. 10:40.24 ALEX Yeah, and which you know and I guess it is hard because you're basing it on iconography and especially a lot of these sites iconography can be so stylistic and so artistic removed from a realistic portrayal that it it can be. Tricky but I do like and I I don't think we get to really do this maybe in episodes like this when we're talking about a very specific culture or region. But I don't think we really get a chance to kind of chat about zoo Archeological adjacent things. So artifacts. That are depictions of animals that aren't necessarily animal remains themselves because even if they aren't you know, osteological remains. It's not something that you could really do zoo archaeological analysis The way that we talk about it too. It is important to the way we we look at animals because obviously Zoarg Gallaxy isn't just animals that are being bred or eaten or hunted. It's also the animals that we you know think about ah was it good to think with is the the phrase for animals. But. It's important to kind of think about how artistically we depict animals and how we depict animals and our stories and culturally because that affects how what we do to the the animals that we actually interact with. 12:52.24 S_ Granarius Well close in a way it adds another piece of the puzzle because yes you get the sort of the um more sort of scientific side of things with the scalletal elements and the analysis sort of of your assemblage on site but the end of the day sort of what we do Well I like to think is that we're. 13:41.74 ALEX Yeah. 13:52.86 ALEX Spin None 13:28.98 S_ Granarius Not just looking at necessarily a subsistence and primary secondary products. But there we're trying to reconstruct human animal relationships in the past in a way the depictions of those animals and the way they're depicted also contributes to what the relationship was there. 14:24.24 ALEX Ah. 14:42.70 ALEX Yeah, exactly I mean you know to to use. Ah maybe a more modern depiction. But it's the one I think about whenever talking to people and telling them why it's important we look at. Not only animal bones but also the way animals are used and how at least we can interpret animal use in more artistic things is say jaws the the film which you know really put a dent in the way general public viewed sharks. Obviously people were. Are always probably afraid of sharks but that that kind of Shark Mania really intensified after that film came out and you know it's something that you could arguably see even in the the deep past you know if there was folklore about a certain species. 15:14.92 S_ Granarius Or. 16:23.28 ALEX Put it in a very negative light that affects the way people see that species and how they interact with it and obviously vice versa. So here in harappa we have so much evidence of potentially elephant. Even if it wasn't. You know, early elephant taming or management still elephant use in ivory and things like that and that gets reflected in the iconography. The fact that iconography becomes very prevalent and harapping contacts and cultures. Obviously it was used so much in everyday life that it gets kind of just juxtaposeow. Post no no, that's not the word. It gets applied really to the way people think about it artistically so it's interesting. It's. 17:07.66 S_ Granarius Yeah I guess like going back to the bird depiction. So looks like chicken. Um I mean I guess Also yes, he could be an early presentation of a chicken but I wonder like the wild ancestor of the chicken like the Jungle fowl. It doesn't look too dissimilar from a standard chicken. 18:14.72 ALEX Yeah. Yeah I think that that was part of the reasoning as to why people were using it as potential evidence of early chickens there but again a bit. 17:46.50 S_ Granarius Not terribly. So. 19:02.40 ALEX With Stylistic defictions. It can be very very tricky but who knows you know if we you know the the real debate against that is that there really isn't any corresponding scalial evidence so there could be someday. But definitely interesting to think about. 18:57.56 S_ Granarius There's like all sorts of variables because then what if the remains didn't preserve for 1 reason or another or they were disposed somewhere far away from the settlement. It's just it's it's one of those things. 20:01.98 ALEX It's the it's the underlying anxieties of archeology that will always remain throughout time until we get time machines like as as as as good as our skills and our technology Guts. You will always have that tiny smidge of maybe we're missing something but I kind of like that I kind of like having that maybe it's because it gives me a slight out for being wrong. Sometimes if not all the time. But. 20:15.80 S_ Granarius Which because we've not found it yet. 21:06.80 ALEX We didn't find it yet. It's fine it's fine I'm I'm fine anyway from from this very deep conversation. We just had we will be going to our next case study which is the zoo archeology of yinchu so yinsu is a word that actually refers to. The ruins of the city of Yin which is located in the hanun province of China and it was likely an important capital during the shang dynasty I believe even in the terminology Yin is often associated with the word shang. So there was definitely association there so it was most likely an important capital around that time. So yinhu is arguably most notable for the many many oracle bones that have been recovered from the site and I've I've realized that I think this is the none time we're talking about Oracle bonds. Which I love warble bones so that's surprising. 22:19.86 S_ Granarius Ah I think we may have mentioned it in a very very early episode I've got a very faint recollection have the actual yes very likely most definitely. 23:16.26 ALEX Probably about ritual it's because it's like the thing I would think about immediately you know despite the biases I guess about me being chinese but so oracle bones are. Also refer to at least in chinese traditional medicine as ah, longgu or Dragon Bones they are often made from either oxcapula or turtle pastan which is the underside of the turtle shell. And they're usually made from fragments of those kind of bones and they will get questions carved into them that are also ah that also have been known to represent some of the earliest chinese script that we have which is also extremely interesting and just to. Get a bit more nerdy about it if you look at what early chinese script looks like it is you can pinpoint the kind of similarities between it and more modern chinese scripts in terms of the way that the the characters have been kind of transformed. And modernize and I think that's one of the only easy things about learning chinese so I learned chinese a bit late in life and I'm still I still struggle with reading chinese but there's certain characters that you can see. They come from this the early kind of characters and you can kind of tell what they're trying to to you know display like a field being kind of a square and things like that. So. It's it's really interesting to see the kind of transformation and yet the retaining of kind of traditional things in that. Anyway, so you would get ah a oxcapulie or a turtle peine you would scrape off the meat from the bone you would then polish and smooth the surface as best as possible and then you would. 26:41.34 S_ Granarius Are. 27:40.36 ALEX Drill little pits or holes into the surface and then you would start to carve in your questions you would usually carve in a kind of like a dedication or something depending on you know who and where you were getting this done then you would kind of carve in the question you were asking. And then you would have a heat source so like a poker or a piece of wood with like fire on it. You would insert it into one of the pits or or holes that were made until the bone itself cracked and then you would take these cracks and you would interpret them I don't know if we really have. Great understanding of how the cracks were specifically interpreted but it's again, it's extremely interesting and that kind of fortunetelling is very prevalent still in a lot of chinese modern-day chinese culture and. Another really important part of yinhu is the tomb of fuo hao ah also known as fu hao mu. It's interpreted as the burial place of fu hao who was. Not only the wife of shang ruler wuding but also a military general in her own right? which is extremely cool and along with various bronze artifacts including loads and loads of weapons which I think is. Part of the reason why that interpretation came to pass. There were the remains of None human attendants and None dogs were also buried there and they were all likely sacrificed at burial and it should also be noted that this tomb was excavated by. Ah, the person who many refer to as the none lady of chinese archaeology herself Jung Genhao so gay troblazers lot a lot of feminism in that case study. But yeah, it's um. 30:48.86 S_ Granarius So so yeah. 31:51.00 ALEX Um, but embarrassingly know little about ancient Chinese tombs and burial archaeology and feudri Archeology So was very happy to also kind of put that into this case study as well as the oracle bones because I just. Love to have an excuse talk about Oracle bones. 31:49.48 S_ Granarius Yeah, think we might have mentioned the ritual episode. 32:41.10 ALEX That makes sense I think it's you know, obviously many other cultures have used bones to do divination and things like that particularly taking fragments and doing you know. 32:30.20 S_ Granarius Because it is it technically old is it pyromancy. 33:18.16 ALEX Whatever Yeah, this is technically pyromancy because what you're interpreting is the the the firecracing which is also I guess interesting from a taphenomic perspective stop. So you would have evidence of. Slight burning or direct burning really on a lot of these bones. 33:23.36 S_ Granarius Because you'll give you information about the temperature that were heated at as well because where they charred where they calcigned bit of both. 34:22.56 ALEX Yeah I mean actually realistically the oracle bones are like a ah treasure trove of Taff ah taphenomic characteristics between and obviously the the fire element but also the actual preparation. The fact that oracle bones are often having to. Be scraped and then polished and smoothed and having the actual pits made as well. It's very intricate particularly you know I mean they are they are obviously using much hardier bow like like ox capule which is pretty Hardy but. It's clearly it's a lot of kind of intense work to be done. Yeah. 34:54.96 S_ Granarius Of processing. Yeah, but I guess you you would reconstruct that through that economic evidence that you have so you'll know this flesh would be removed one because you might find sort of slicing or cut marks on the bone to take the flesh off but also in the way that it burns because of course if you put a meat bearing. 36:02.24 ALEX Ah. 35:33.90 S_ Granarius Element on the fire. So say you know you stereotyped when you see your cartoon sort of joint to bone with a little bit of the fema sticking the cartoon fema sticking out, you know, just picture that for a moment. Obviously you know like the bone that sticks out is going to char. 36:45.56 ALEX And. 36:06.12 S_ Granarius While the bit that's bearing. The meat is not going to be as heat affected because it's it's cushioned by all that flesh on around. So course if the heat gets this rebu to sort of roughly evenly like it's safe to say that there was no meat attached to that bone and what and. 36:58.58 ALEX Yeah. 37:15.64 ALEX Um. 36:39.84 S_ Granarius But I forgot about the polishing. Yeah with some polishing in there as well. 37:26.40 ALEX Oh yeah, you got to polish you got to make it nice if you're gonna use it for divination purposes. You know, obviously but I guess it's fitting though that we end this episode on some rituals. It's one of our favorite things to talk about. And yeah I think that's that's it for us. As usual, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to our backlog at http://ouralagypodcastowwork.com also think about becoming a member help support all the podcast's shows there as well as ourselves. Get some bonus content. Maybe ah asmr zoo archeology episode down the way if you want to hear some some bones getting shattered or something. We'll think about it. Maybe just so you know become a member and you'll see. You can find us on Twitter at archeo animals and tell your friends to listen subscribe follow what? All the are fun stuff and leave a review because I like to be validated I need to be validated. So yeah I think. 39:01.36 S_ Granarius Validate me. 39:47.66 ALEX Validate me all right? Well as always I'm Alex Fitzpatrick and we will see you next time for our next episode that sound like say something more exciting but oh well. 39:17.52 S_ Granarius Let's see what of forlanga. 39:27.66 S_ Granarius Spain this. 40:21.64 ALEX It's fine. We have another episode. It's fine. Let's see you later by. 39:40.76 S_ Granarius 5