00:00.00 ALEX Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of archaeo animals the podcast all about zoareology I'm your host Alex Fitzpatrick and with me as always see now I'm like trying to do the Smr thing but I can't cause. 00:12.59 S_ Granarius Sibona falanga. 00:35.44 ALEX I'm a New Yorker and I'm too loud. Maybe we'll do that for an episode. We'll do entirely asmr episode. You know? Yeah, just bang a bone just paying the bone on the mic. Anyway. 00:35.45 S_ Granarius Like the bone whisperers. 01:11.56 ALEX Today's episode we are returning I'm not really returning. We've we've been doing this series this whole time but we are doing another episode in our miniseries that we've called where in the world. Which is letting us finally break out of our british shells and enter other parts of the world to take a look at the zoo archeology there and we're going continent by continent for ease so lot of space to cover but we'll try to do our best and today we'll be looking at Asia. 02:00.21 S_ Granarius Yeah, so roughly as for the other episodes the way it's going to work so we'll cover some of the wild species that are permanent so in in this region and then we'll focus on the domesticates and finally ah, what is allegedly your favorite the case studies. 02:47.30 ALEX Our so-called favorite part of the episode. But I think I think it's a good part of the episode. So let's get. 02:49.95 S_ Granarius I Think we can't take a hint because we've said it so many times you thought that someone would have reinforced that on social media going. Yes, it is our favorite part of the episode but it's been very quiet. So I think we just can't take a hint. 03:35.42 ALEX It's called manifesting Simona or manifesting it into reality. Anyway, we will as Simona said start with the wild species that are native to this region of the world and sam will start with the tiger and as always simoa will be doing. The latin because I can opt. 03:57.73 S_ Granarius Show. Yeah Panterity gris. 04:22.92 ALEX Thank you Thank you And although so historically the tiger was distributed throughout Asia today. It is mostly found in the southeast and Northeast Asia and interestingly and this is something I didn't know until we started doing the research for this episode I didn't realize that the topic of tiger subspecies was such a huge site of debate among geneticists. Um I guess that's not really our our lane. But. Yeah, there seems to be a general lack of consensus as to how many actually exist which is I mean to be fair I don't think I could tell you how many subspecies there were for most animals off the top of my head so it's not really a not really a thing you can. 05:55.19 S_ Granarius No. 06:17.38 ALEX Easily see by bone. Is it. 06:06.45 S_ Granarius No, probably be just something at the genetic level and also you get you realize but it into perspective I mean there's so many subspecies but because you know originally that's such a wide range I mean it's a big continent see you. 06:44.44 ALEX Pretty big. 06:39.95 S_ Granarius Would see a lot of variation there. But ah yeah, probably at a genetic level mostly not in terms of sort ofkeletal remains. 07:04.30 ALEX Yeah, so it's not really something we personally get to cover. Although again, you know I assume you could see it through say a Dna work or things like that and obviously as adna work becomes more commonplace I'm sure that. There'll be some sites where zoo archeologically they'll get down to the subspecies which is pretty cool to be honest, but anyway so it's been a massive debate among genesis and biologists as to how many subspecies there are. Among tigers but genome sequencing in 2018 may have finally narrowed down the actual number to around None subspecies and for once I won't make Simona read all the latin names because there's there's none of latin names for her to read in this episode. But just to say list the common ones you have the bengal tiger the amur tiger the south china tiger the sumatran tiger the indochinese tiger and the malayan tiger. Speaking of tigers. My cat is now staring at me and she's leaving because she's bored of this podcast. So see the only real tiger has left now. She's just sat behind me so it's fine. We do have a tiger in our midst for this episode anyway. Ah. 09:21.49 S_ Granarius She says she's the only real tiger. 10:00.88 ALEX Tigers have held a cultural importance throughout the asian continent both in the past and also in the present ah remains have historically been used as. Amulets and as medicine particularly in chinese traditional medicine which is I think a lot of people think of chinese traditional medicine as mostly plants and herbs and it definitely is but chinese traditional medicine also uses a lot of animal parts and also things like stones and ah. Metals. It's a very big kind of field that I'm obviously very interested in. But yeah tiger remains have been used as medicine in chinese traditional medicine. But I believe laws have now made that a lot more difficult unsurprisingly. And speaking of China Tigers are also the none animal in the chinese zodiac they represent the earth element and it's not just China though in Korea the tiger is seen as a guardian against evil and this is. Where we have to shoehorn one of our favorites. So get that bingo card out guess who would import tigers. 12:13.35 S_ Granarius It's the phoenicians. 12:35.64 ALEX Oh no, don't be silly Simona it's the romans they would import tigers as part of their menageries and combat theater du. 12:49.31 S_ Granarius Think of that. Ah, but yes, ah you you do find a tiger's being depicted on um Roman Mosaics of course for a lot of um so that yeah they. 13:08.76 ALEX I Mean who else. 13:20.43 S_ Granarius Combat theater scenes or even sort of scenes or tigers or similar sort of wild animals being sort of coraled ah from the wild. Um romans. 13:54.76 ALEX Yeah I mean I feel like you wouldn't be wrong for the most part if you're you see any kind of non European animal and you're like the Romans probably took that back with them right? Like. Ah, feel like there's a smaller list of species. They didn't take back. 14:25.87 S_ Granarius And yeah I mean the ones say the ones that they didn't voluntarily take they took with them by mistake. 14:53.44 ALEX There's not much else to say are we finally getting. True and we have a whole episode about that kind of straggler animals and you can find that in our our backlog but have have we finally reached Roman exhaustion. 15:17.39 S_ Granarius All you say that. 15:35.24 ALEX Sure that's just that's that's just tempting you at this point I'm looking forward to finding out how we we get romans into our episode on Australia that's true. Anyway, we we'll move on to our next species. The. 15:30.99 S_ Granarius No. 15:47.50 S_ Granarius Oh above will find a way find a way. Yeah, yes, so to see find ah any research to see if the Romans grabbed any of those from the wild. Um, they had the giant pan. 16:15.18 ALEX Giant Panda Oh yes. 16:24.50 S_ Granarius Iurropo the Melanoleoca is primarily found in China and you have so two subspecies the iurropo the melannoleo ca Melano Loca just stressed it twice. You know which is you know your typical black and white giant Panda that usually like it tends to be more in people's imagination. Um, the kindling panda the iluro poda melannolea kly gensis I hope you wrote that down. Ah and this other subspecies is light brown and white in color. Um. Now prior to the none century. The giant panda was classified in chinese as more. Um, however, this was also the name for a mythical creature that ah the trunk of an elephant the feet of a tiger the eyes of a rhido and the tail of a cow. 18:22.18 ALEX So well I mean you don't really have to imagine it because the reason why there's some confusion is some French expert made the mistake of thinking that Ma referred to a tapier which is basically what they look like. 18:12.91 S_ Granarius I'm trying to picture that. 18:44.73 S_ Granarius Yeah, truck of an elephant feet of a Tiger eyes of around. Oh yeah, that's a tape here. Yeah, no, absolutely not really. 19:01.12 ALEX So. Yeah I mean actually if if people do want to look it Up. It's spelled M O if fanatically ah it it does look like you kind of can't blame them because it does look like a tapier. 19:21.47 S_ Granarius Oh ok, Um, but I mean obviously this has had a knockdown effect on archaeological interpretations of material culture depicting the Bao The mythical creature causing archaeologists to infer that the tape here I potentially have um, a. Held a much higher sort of Symbollic and symbolic importance that it actually had ah as of course the iconography of the medical creature was used to Repel Evil. So. 20:38.80 ALEX Yeah, anyway, giant Pandas remain the icon of China and they're cool and they're not tapiers so jot that down and. 20:44.71 S_ Granarius Just have we learned anything today. Yes, pandas are not tapers. 21:06.92 ALEX To be fair and I can't believe I'm making this kind of giving them the leeway. But for people who don't know chinese language can be very difficult because you can have the same word and then depending on the way you use the tones. Could mean like None different things. So it's not surprising to me that there was this kind of weird mixup with the mall and to be honest I um, as some listeners may know I am chinese-american so I do know some chinese but I am. Most likely doing the the tones wrong in this episode so apologies study chinese speakers who are going oh my gosh. The tones are wrong. She is nobody what she's saying she say something completely different apologies for that. Um, but yeah, so it could. 22:39.35 S_ Granarius Yeah I've just I've just found a photo you know it it that to be fair. Yeah. 23:03.88 ALEX It's less look good. It looks so much like it like you can't really fault them if I looked at that I'd be like that's a tape here and if you look back at some of the archeological kind of depictions of what people thought were tapier and were actually the more. Ah. You. You would also think that so I mean it's all I think it's only something that's kind of within the last couple of decades has really had a ah real evaluation. But it's interesting for sure. So pandas not tape years. Very important lesson anyway I think we should get to our our last wild ah species which is the asian elephant now we have covered. 24:29.65 S_ Granarius The Lphas Maximus 24:54.90 ALEX The african elephant previously. So there's not that much different to really talk about at least you know, biologically anatomically and the Asian Elephant is spread throughout South and Southeast Asia and has three subspecies. 25:16.35 S_ Granarius Okay, um, the the elephants Maximus Maximus so like the big big you know which is the sri lankan elephant Elphas Maximus Inicus just the mainland asian elephant and Elphas Maximus sumatranus 25:34.86 ALEX Here we go. 25:53.17 S_ Granarius The Summatron elephant. 26:06.76 ALEX Good job I just I'm always impressed by your ability I mean it makes sense I know that you are italian so it's not that difficult but that is extremely difficult for me and I took for 4 terms of latin. So. 26:28.63 S_ Granarius To if ah ah I just read it as I with an Italian accent. 26:44.88 ALEX Good Job. I Mean it's a good.. It's a good tip for people who are trying to speak Latin Any Any ah high school or college students out there who are taking Latin right now that takes Samota's advice if you. Don't remember how to pronounce something just do it in a tiny accent. You'll probably make your way through. 27:18.55 S_ Granarius Um, ah ah I'm I'm getting really horrible scenes now. 27:41.96 ALEX Anyway, so getting back to the elephant during the Mesolithic meat was likely scavenged from fallen elephants with actual elephant hunts probably being rare given you know it's a bit difficult I think to Hunt. And Elephant particularly with kind of low grade or you know not as sophisticated Weaponry. So Understandable I feel like. 28:30.25 S_ Granarius It's a high risk a high gain but ah also very high risk the Thinker one of them sort of touches you ever So slightly you're pretty much done for probably. 28:52.16 ALEX True. This is extremely true now during the neolithic el remains particularly the ivory from his tusks would become much more prevalent in archeological contexts as worked artifacts. Elephants would become unsurprisingly a very important part of cultural iconography particularly in harappan material culture which we will talk about later spoiler alert and in places like Karala india the elephant is actually a central component to. Local rituals and festivals having' been historically woven into local legends and lore to the point that I think there's um, ah like None elephants that are ah owned by ah either organizations or individuals in corral. So. Big big importance on elephants there and I think that's kind of going to be the running theme. Ah this episode not elephants but the kind of running theme of iconography and cultural importance that exists today. And I think we've we've touched upon this in previous episodes but it is interesting to see how far some of this iconography lasts and how much we still have these kind of associations with certain species that are actually thousands of years old you know, like how we all mistake the tapier for a panda. 32:01.67 S_ Granarius Yeah, it makes me wonder particular about a lot of the um you know the interpretations we have like of ah representations of animals that sorry I don't I didn't know what I'm saying. 32:32.60 ALEX Ah. Yeah I guess it could be no I think if if I'm I'm understanding what you're about to say from I'm reading your mind correctly across time and space. It's I feel like it could be a tricky thing In. It's almost chicken and egg dewey and make this interpretation because we already think this way about said animal or is this more of a interpretation that has like contextual evidence if that makes sense a blue. 33:34.43 S_ Granarius I mean similarly, but and not not related at all I Want to know what's the deal with the the cats writing the snails in illuminated manuscripts. 33:52.40 ALEX Bluesome under design. 34:08.78 ALEX Again, That's you know a very common cultural thing that exists to this day. All those snails being written by cats at. 34:13.37 S_ Granarius Because I feel like that would have been a beautiful sort of folklore legend has been lost to time and now is just means. 34:37.34 ALEX Yeah, yeah, now it's just on that weird medieval guys Twitter which makes me laugh every single time I see it and I think as we ponder these very deep questions as to whether or not cats riding snails has. Kind of cultural connotations I think we will take a break and we'll come back and talk a bit more about domesticates all those really different domesticated species and it's definitely not going to be very similar to the last couple of so it's. 35:26.70 S_ Granarius And it's a definitely not going to be just various iterations of cattle. You know. 35:46.48 ALEX Oh no, oh.