00:00.00 ALEX Now is propane. 00:01.85 archpodnet And her daughter accessories. Please don't don't include that Chris or Laura just cut edit that plays. Yeah, no, no, no, don't listen to that. 00:07.40 ALEX No cut now we're not paying Mike judge for this. 00:11.73 S_ Granarius Did did did did just did just just just cut the whole show just just just scrap us. 00:21.75 archpodnet Let's section 3 Let's enter oops sorry my bad. 00:23.16 ALEX Oh Jesus. 00:24.75 S_ Granarius And um, we are back at archae animalsals this episode. We're talking about contemporary rubbish pits and we've realized that we left out 1 crucial segment of a zoo archeological analysis that we might have wanted to put before dophenomic analysis and that is age. Death of your assemblage. Um, so I mean um, that again isn't again is something that hass not changed that much from the past as most animals nowadays have butched at the subad adult stage when they've reached sort of that optimum weight visa v the tenderness of the meat. So in a way like the animals if left to grow to the adult stage. Yes, they would grow a little bit bigger but the extra time and resources taken and raising the animal just that little step further is not economical sort of like it's not financially worth it or. Guess that. Yeah, the meat won't necessarily be a tender either. Um, so that that sorry the dog was licking my feet just stop. 01:26.40 ALEX Yeah, but you know the butchering ages. 01:35.40 ALEX But yeah, the ah the butchering ages are comparatively shorter than in the past you know we've actually selected animals that grow especiallyly quicker as far as commercial breeds are concerned so like the Boiler chicken. So the bones may look. 01:41.68 S_ Granarius 1 01:53.86 ALEX Relatively immature for the most part and this is actually why I wanted to put this after the taphonomy even though you know normally you would look at age of death a bit earlier but I figured you know we talked about butchery so it kind of makes sense to talk about you to death at this point because that's really. What we're looking at age to death for in most of these kind of hypotheticals. They're looking at consumed Animals. So we're looking at their butchering age. 02:19.82 S_ Granarius Yeah, which is yes, you'll normally be yeah, the subad adult generically. But yes, they have become quite a bit shorter in recent but say in recent years probably over the last fifty years or so although you do see sort of that trend. 02:32.69 ALEX And. 02:36.53 S_ Granarius Being somewhat reversed with heritage Breeds becoming more and more prominent. Um, so you start seeing a lot more sort of farms raising animals that are actually allowed to grow. 02:39.28 ALEX Yeah. 02:48.72 S_ Granarius Properly sort of for the correct amount of time and not having them put on like masses and masses of muscle and fat in a very short space of time. 02:55.53 ALEX And yet we still have stuff like lamb being favored over Mutton in Western Europe at least which is I think you mentioned this earlier but it's mostly because it's considered too tough for our sensitive palettes. Do you want to add what you just what you wrote in the notes. 03:09.83 S_ Granarius No yes, Ah yeah, yes, with the drumming and everything because he's just just put it in a stew. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. 03:15.35 ALEX Somona. 03:21.12 ALEX Ha hot take and we kind of talked about this when we were talking about pets but you know we do have age deaf for pets as well and it's it's hard to say confidently that domestic cats and dogs live for a significantly longer. Then I pre start counterparts but you know it can probably be assumed given the increased medical technology and interventions. Ah the average age of deathaf for both cats and dogs seem to be around 11 to 15 ish depending on the breed and the lifestyle of course. And some are getting to as old as 20 yeah. 04:01.91 S_ Granarius I think especially cats. They're very very long lived. So I mean like the difference is quite stark compared. So if you look at countries where there's big feral cat populations. So I think like a feral cow would probably be lucky to get to 6 or 7 04:15.98 ALEX Yeah. 04:19.50 S_ Granarius But also your domestic cat will live like anything between like 1520 years old so of course some of it is that for the most part they will tend to be sheltered and looked after and um I guess we have better ways and means of looking after our pets. Including sort of like well we still look after them in cases when they're affected by conditions that would normally severely limit their survival in the wild but say if you look at cats for example, so I mean cats being kept a sort of full-on pets for the lack of a better term is a fairlydy. Recent phenomenon as cats over the centuries were mainly sort of like seen as farm cats. So like so taking care like of the pest control side of things. Um, so in a way like while there were. 04:59.19 ALEX Yeah. 05:10.31 S_ Granarius Owned by someone they still have to fend for themselves to a degree. So then if you instead take ah my cap as a case study where like all she's got left is one lower canine and that's about it for her teeth because ah tooth resorption which is ah an annoying thing that happens to cats. 05:20.18 ALEX Long. 05:28.37 S_ Granarius Sometimes she's got no teeth left. So I've presumed that if she was a feral cat somewhere a chance of survival will probably be very minimal but here she's a queen so she's she's very happy and just doing just fine. 05:42.87 ALEX And then kind of hand in hand with talking about h deaf we talk about funery traditions and again we are talking primarily about pets unless you know I'm sure there might be someone out there who considers every meal that they throw away a funre tradition. Ah. And in that case, please contact us I have a lot of questions I would like to ask you but you know originally and even still today I think some people still do this. You know if your pet died you buried it in your backyard and obviously in the the longer past you would either bury it. Wherever or they might be in a specific place that you would bury it. We obviously have talked about kind of these mixed burials and you know and pets buried close to owners things like that and then you know today, there's actually an increase in. 06:19.47 S_ Granarius Ah. 06:39.30 ALEX There's an increase in bespoke funerary rights for pets so that could be burial in an individual cemetery plot in a pet cemetery or in a another type of cemetery or even just being cremated which I think is the case for a lot of pets these days and there's also been an increase in kind of more creative means of memorializing a deceased pet. With Taxidermy bone cleaning services and businesses that will actually turn pet ashes into art and jewelry which is also the case for human ashes as Well. So lot of different ways to be looking at kind of funerary rights in modern Zoo archaeology. 07:14.12 S_ Granarius Imagine the headache for someone who'll be looking at those remains 500 years from now. 07:18.51 ALEX I Don't yeah I don't envy them I'm pretty good happy with working with what we're working with now. Ah so good luck guys and ah to kind of you know, bring this episode to a close. We have a. Case studies but not necessarily Case. Studies will be kind of doing hypothetical ones I guess because we are talking about hypotheticals this whole episode. So Let's kind of dig in to what a domestic Rubbish pit would look like. So What will we find in your bin. 07:57.97 S_ Granarius Do fair Zo archeological was speaking probably not an awful lot because again as we discuss before um, a lot So the meat that's readily available does not come in sort of cuts on the bone. Um, so. 08:02.00 ALEX Yeah. These are now. 08:16.80 S_ Granarius Not a lot. Um and that is probably the case for a lot of western europe at least and so I mean they your joints of meat you you maybe have that for your Sunday roast here in Britain you buy a fish on Friday but then again like fish here normally means means. Fish and chips which has already been debboned so you won't get that either. Although like you know twist what you might get. You know if um, then you cook your stew or whatever in your casserole and then you decide to also throw the casserole for reasons you might have food residues. 08:53.35 ALEX Um, yeah, so any zoo archeologists in the future somehow listening to this lip lipid analysis is gonna be huge so you might as well get into that. 08:55.49 S_ Granarius You can do analysis on and you can come up with the ingredients of your shoe. They got them. 09:09.11 S_ Granarius Though Please let's not advertise single use casserole. Will you just cook your food and just just chuck it. Please don't do that. 09:15.24 ALEX Also I guess realistically if we're hopefully in the future. They have much better ways to analyze zo Archeological remains. So this could all be you know, nothing? Um, oh implants. 09:26.25 S_ Granarius Maybe that they'll have the c fourteen eyes we just look at it. Oh yes, ah 50560 a d thirteenth of January on a full moon. Why not. 09:38.36 ALEX So yeah, we've also talked about you know boneless cuts and also the rise of process meat being a thing this will contribute to the bias of what you'll find in your rubbish pit and we've again, we've kind of talked about this but a household may consume. Meat on a daily basis but it might just be in the form of sausages burgers, bacon chicken breasts and salami So Some of them are more readily available and less costly in terms of meat products. But we wouldn't see them at all in the archaeological record again unless you have some kind of magical future implant that lets you see all this stuff. 10:20.47 S_ Granarius Yeah, and of course that you might see a certain seasonality over the types of meat that are consumed so like I mean there's probably of course in the past certain species would have only been available at certain times of the year now we've sort of got to a stage where everything is available all of the time. 10:24.14 ALEX Yes. 10:33.10 ALEX Yeah. 10:38.86 S_ Granarius Um, although you will do tend to find higher concentrations of it a certain times of the year to say turkey being consumed a thanksgiving in the us of Christmas in Britain. 10:46.60 ALEX Yeah, and you know mute meat Utility is also not really as much of a thing if do you want to explain meat utility because I don't know if we talked about it on this podcast yet. 11:00.55 S_ Granarius I Guess you'll be the sort of the selection of joints of meat based on what what that meat utility is or how much meat to the bearing. So of course the the joints that bear the more meat will have the more meat utility So things like chicken wings for instance, not a lot of meat utility. 11:08.26 ALEX M. 11:19.31 S_ Granarius But if you go through sort of rubbish pits in in Britain to like very sort of generically. You'll probably find a lot of chicken wings. So in spite having very little meat and very little utility as a result they are frequently consumed because they're tasty. 11:36.50 ALEX They're really good. Yeah I can't blame people for eating them and I guess speaking of chicken wings. We'll go to our next kind of hypothetical case study which is what would you find at a rubbish pit from a pub. So for more wings. 11:49.10 S_ Granarius More wings. Um. 11:54.00 ALEX Ah, so yeah, we'll basically kind of look at traditional pub foods to imagine what the rubbish pit would look like besides you know vomit broken glasses and the disposable income of many universal ads I do like Pus just good natured ribbing. 12:05.30 S_ Granarius Yes. 12:10.56 S_ Granarius Um, but yeah I guess ah one of your aside from wings. Um one of your statuss of the pub might be it so a lambshank on a Sunday knuckles the bones that you would find on that very much depends whether it's a fourank which will have the radius and old that or the hank. Which will have the tiba fibula. Um, sometimes you might find heat exposed or like a burned bone in your lambshank. Um, and that's usually if there's been sort of french trimming done just where sort of the meat is. Removed on purpose or to expose the bone for decorative purposes. 12:46.93 ALEX Very fancy I don't know how many pubs are doing that but hey might happen I don't know you might live in a fancy place but speaking of Pub Foods we obviously have fish and chips usually the fish will be ah filtered. So there will be no bones in it unless you know though, there might be a sneaky bone in there. It happens so sneaky bone so we don't have much to go by for that zoo like zoo archeologically speaking but as we were just talking about this is where stuff like lipid analysis could be really helpful. 13:08.66 S_ Granarius This is hashtags the you vote. 13:24.19 ALEX To determine its identity based on the oils left over from the fry and kind of similar would be scmpy as well and you know Simona mentioned scamy when we were ah you know planning this episode and it took me down a giant rabbit hole because I found out and I had no idea. Because you know I don't know about you but I don't really work with crustaceans they're actually little lobsters I didn't know that I'm not very smart. Such believe. 13:48.43 S_ Granarius Oh. 13:51.87 archpodnet Do you know when you say little lobsters like I think yeah I get what you mean, but like it also made it makes me feel like full size lobsters but like scaled down rather than I think scam be like I think they're like crawfish aren't they like. 14:07.54 ALEX Lead Technically they are. That's what I thought yeah I always assumed in my brain that but the problem and this is where I think the confusion comes is that shrimp scampy is also a thing. 14:11.73 archpodnet Ah, kind of more they they seem quite shrimpy to me like when I've seen them. Yeah. 14:22.60 archpodnet Ah, yeah, of course. Yeah. 14:25.33 ALEX And those are made from other crustaceans again usually shrimp but legally speaking in the U K scy refers to nephros norvi because aka the Dublin but ah Bay Prawn or the Norway lobster. 14:39.44 archpodnet I mean is this scmpy Legal excuse me I Want to see the legal definition. You're scampy here I don't think you're scampys Legal I Did That's why you have a podcast like about this stuff. 14:48.29 ALEX Listen This was very interesting the way. This is je and you know the reason why we haven't really talked about this is because you know Crustaceans into archeal. It's really dependent on good preservation and hard shells. So when you have these smaller ones such as prawns or these tiny little lobsters. Ah, less likely to survive So Really don't know how much of a s scam he would survive in the Zoor archeological record to begin with limit analysis as always limit analysis. Ah, that's true and. 15:20.43 S_ Granarius Lipid analysis that let's 1 take away from this slipped analysis. Everything. 15:29.90 ALEX Something that may actually appear a bit more is a roast that the famous British roast and as far yeah, but as far as species goes beef is still the goat to animal for British roasts followed closely by you guessed it chicken and then lamb. 15:33.60 S_ Granarius But probably also not. 15:43.96 S_ Granarius But if you want to feel opulent though you have all 3 because you can have a trio of roast. 15:48.55 ALEX Oh like like a turdacan kind of situation. 15:52.99 S_ Granarius I Think it's like a slice of each so can have like beef like pork and lamb something just when you're feeling really extra like yeah. 15:57.91 ALEX But what if it's but but what if it's a ter Ducan situation. Do you know what? I mean by that? yeah. 16:06.70 S_ Granarius Ah, like the ones like that's the animal within the animal within the animal. Um, the the last still happens and the the place. 16:13.28 ALEX If Any listeners out there wants to make a todakin type of deal with beef chicken alarm, please send us Pictures. We will post it on our social media and also tell us how if if if it was good or not Anyway. Depending on Preparation. We might be able to find burnt bone on this roast if we looked at it zo archeologically and butchery could vary based on the skill of the carver say if I carved a roast you will see a lot of very interesting things happening on that bone. But for the most part you'll see ah philiping Marks. So. 16:52.20 S_ Granarius Yeah, what if 1 thing we'll definitely be seeing bones are ribs so usually beef you know to get pork and rarely lamb as well. Burn bone also very likely. But again it depends very much in the preparation and the style of the dish. 16:55.00 ALEX Ah. 17:05.56 ALEX Um. 17:08.35 S_ Granarius Oh um, but at least in this one, you will definitely get bones. There will be ribs somewhere probably the like dumpster by the pub. Um, but of course the cups would be a lot cleaner. Um I do prepare that and goes for ribs that you can have at homeless well because these days you can buy sort of pre-cut ribs That's got the sauce and everything and you just like. 17:15.78 ALEX Got me. 17:25.90 ALEX Yeah, baby you got some ribs going and we have we did already talk about chicken wings a lot but archeologically speaking or Zo archaeologically speaking you would find. 17:28.29 S_ Granarius Jump up and put it in the micro. Even you got ribs going? yeah. 17:43.61 ALEX Humorous and the radius and the allna and probably some remnant of sauce. So I think to end this episode Simona what kind of sauce. Do you normally have with your trigger wings. 17:56.96 S_ Granarius Oh I Usually just mix a bunch of stuff so like a lot like paprika and hot sauce and just chili's and anything spicy I got I have a hand. 18:07.99 ALEX I usually go for as an american of course I either go for ranch or a blue cheese and I hate to say this but Tristan what do you go for your chicken wings. 18:20.20 archpodnet I um I I don't really eat chicken wings I no no no no okay okay okay right I once had I once had a really nice like Hickory barbecue sauce on chicken wings and it was really really tasty. But normally I just. 18:23.78 ALEX All right, get off, get off the mic. 18:39.65 archpodnet I Think they're really peace like and they're just too Pc for me. So it's not top my list. Maybe I can be proven wrong. Maybe I can be proven wrong. 18:46.60 ALEX Listeners If you're hearing this I want you to boo this man I want you the boo this man and he'll he'll know he'll know you're doing it. 18:51.35 archpodnet Ah, dear of all the things to end my career. 19:01.12 ALEX And and to end this podcast. So as always, you can find us on Twitter at archaeo animalsimals. Ah you can find us wherever we get your podcasts obviously. Because you you're listening to it now I don't know why I said that but hey while you're there. Why don't you give us a review like and subscribe tell your friends about us and hey you know send us a message. Let us know what you want ah feature episodes to be like. Hey. Maybe you might miss the the video game podcasts I don't know. Yeah, so we have a reason to really do um now we don't need a reason to do it what we talking about. 19:38.97 archpodnet Ah. 19:41.15 S_ Granarius Please ask for more video game episodes. 19:48.24 archpodnet Exactly we're in charge we're we we own 51% of this podcast. 19:53.19 ALEX All right? We'll see you next time folks by you. Yes. 19:59.20 S_ Granarius B. 20:02.40 archpodnet Okay, you know you talking about the chicken wings I have the best like 1 of the best like memes out there I'm just gonna send it you guys I just I know how much it's gonna get under your skin. It's so perfect. 20:14.17 ALEX God I hope that person dies I hope that person has a horrible life man. It's the worst thing I've seen in my life. Jesus Christ I hate that 20:17.41 archpodnet Ah, can we can we like it in the show notes. It's so good. So good right? No, it's just the internet you know. 20:25.95 S_ Granarius If you could do but have you got any sort of credits for that if you want to put it in the show notes. Yeah.